Over and over again I've seen people post that the King in Yellow is the best small box expansion. Certainly there's a lot to be said for the expansion: it has great spells, an absolutely fantastic Herald, and some pretty interesting common and unique items. I don't feel, however, that its flaws have been given sufficient attention, so that's what I intend to do here. These are the problems I've found with the King in Yellow expansion and the reasons I don't consider it the best small box expansion.

1. The Mythos cards-I'm not criticizing the Headline, Environment, etc. sections of these Mythos cards; those parts are actually pretty good. What I am criticizing is the distribution of gate openings and the lack of gate bursts. In CotDP, the cards included gate openings at the four rare unstable Arkham locations, thus speeding along the Doom Track and increasing the challenge and tension. KiY, by contrast, offers no new cards for the four rare locations; it only opens gates at the common and uncommon locations. Moreover there are no gates bursts. The net effect of this is to slow the Doom Track to a crawl, a problem worsened by the six Next Act Begins cards and the Intermission card, none of which add any Doom tokens. I noticed this problem fairly early on, but the game that really drove it home to me was when I was introducing a bunch of newbies to Arkham, using KiY and Dunwich. We sealed Yig away and it wasn't even close. I understand that this distribution of gate locations was probably meant to increase the number of monster surges and thus speed the Terror Track, but it does so at the terrible expense of the Doom Track, a far from even trade in my opinon. I will say, however, that the use of the King in Yellow Herald does help to remedy this problem to some extent.

2. Dilution of the Next Act Begins- Aside from slowing the Doom Track, these cards pretty much cease to be a threat if you're using any other expansion in addition to basic Arkham. And of course if you're using only basic Arkham, you have no gate bursts and a Doom Track which is so slow as to be a joke!

3. The Other World cards-To put it bluntly, I find these cards sorely lacking in imagination and scope, quite noticieably inferior to those offered by Dunwich and CotP.

4. Massive Touring Performance problems-In Touring Performance mode you place the new cards from KiY atop the old cards. Yes, this lets you immerse yourself fully in what KiY brings to the table, but it also has some pretty unfortunate side-effects. Obviously, with the KiY Mythos cards on top, you're never really going to have to worry about too many gates opening or the Doom Track filling naturally; all you have to worry about is The Next Act Begins cards, and how many times you can afford to stop the First Act without awakening the AO. I can hear some of you saying that in the Touring Performance mode the play should be the main threat; fair enough, but what follows isn't. By placing the Common and Unique Items from KiY on top, this mode makes it very, VERY difficult for you to acquire decent weapons or sometimes any weapons at all! You'd better have McGlen or Harrigan, people who start with weapons, because there simply are not enough weapons in the added cards, not if you have at least four players.

I think that about does it. Alternative and dissenting opinions are welcome, of course.

Thanks for posting. I have yet to buy any expansions and I'm tossing back the idea of which one to buy so this helps a bunch.

Still KiY is considered the best SMALL-box especially compared with the likes of DP and BGotW. It ranks high up there with LitT for many good reasons. The Act deck, while not opening gates, does stealthily increase the threat of imminent doom providing you do dilute the mythos deck quite a little bit. The items introduced are excellent and the Herald is challenging and interesting to play against!

DP simply does not provide enough to make it that interesting. Not a high difficulty boost, and in fact can make the game easier with the exhibit items! BGotW simply gets diluted WAY too easily, unless you use the incredibly powerful heral. LitT is the only small-box that is VERY good, and probably one of the best, just like the KiY.

By the way, don't use the Touring Performance variant. It's simply too imbalanced to be of any fun. But mix KiY will all of your expansion, and it enhances the theme and difficulty significantly with the encroaching terror level and the yellow sign!

mi-go hunter said:

I play the BGotW herald, but ignore the part where you add doom tokens for gate bursts. Corruptions are very common in my games

While I agree that KiY isn't the BEST small expansion, I think the majority of us say it's the best FIRST small-box expansion to get. That's the point that I make most often, more so than one being "better" than another...

In answer to Solan's four points:

1. While this is a flaw, I don't think it's that much of a problem. Besides, monster surges are fun.

2. Here I must say "not true". It's all a question of random chance. Sometimes you'll get only the first act on the board before winning, sometimes you'll tear your hair out because the "Next act" cards pop out every second round.

3. A question of perception. I haven't really noticed them being worse or better.

4. I never use the touring performance rules.

Depending on what you like KiY might not be the best small expansion, but nevertheless it still adds a ton of fun to the game. I really like to play KiY with Hastur as the AO and KiY as the Herald, adding the Performance to the game makes it crazy and fun, just like using the Dark Pharaoh as a Herald with the Exhibit cards and Nyarlathothep as the Ao. What you like and what you don't is a matter of personal opinion, but I think you can agree that KiY is a good expansion.

You're welcome, GB14. Personallly, I would recommend CotDP for the first small box expansion (with the DP Herald or Visting Exhibit mode) and Dunwich for the first large one. While KiY does have the problems I outlined above, I would still put it well above Black Goat and Lurker, and the first and biggest of its problems can be addressed by using the King in Yellow Herald.

We'll have to agree to disagree on CotDP, mi-go hunter. I think it provides more than enough to make it an interesting expansion. I do agree that the Exhibit Items can make it too easy, but using the printable Dark Pharoah Herald (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/330531/arkham-horror-curse-of-the-dark-pharaoh-expansion) solves that problem nicely. Furthermore, unlike the Touring Performance mode for KiY, the Visting Exhibit mode for CotDP works extremely well, in my opinion.

From Arag, "In answer to Solan's four points:

1. While this is a flaw, I don't think it's that much of a problem. Besides, monster surges are fun.

2. Here I must say "not true". It's all a question of random chance. Sometimes you'll get only the first act on the board before winning, sometimes you'll tear your hair out because the "Next act" cards pop out every second round.

3. A question of perception. I haven't really noticed them being worse or better.

4. I never use the touring performance rules.

Depending on what you like KiY might not be the best small expansion, but nevertheless it still adds a ton of fun to the game. I really like to play KiY with Hastur as the AO and KiY as the Herald, adding the Performance to the game makes it crazy and fun, just like using the Dark Pharaoh as a Herald with the Exhibit cards and Nyarlathothep as the Ao. What you like and what you don't is a matter of personal opinion, but I think you can agree that KiY is a good expansion."

Thanks for the response, Arag. Here is my reply.

1. On the contrary, I found the gate locations and lack of bursts to be a huge problem when I used KiY and Dunwich. It took too much of the challenge away from the game. This difficulty can in large part be avoided, however, by using the King in Yellow Herald.

2. In my experience with KiY and Dunwich, it was true. Only once in all the games I played did the Third Act come up.

3. I have, and I think there's an objective basis for that judgment.

4. That's your choice, but others might want to use it and as another poster also noted, the Touring Performance mode is badly unbalanced.

What you like and don't like is definitely a matter of personal taste. I can certainly agree with you that KiY is a good expansion; no question on that point. Like I said, I put it far above Black Goat and even above Lurker. It just irks me to see this expansion constantly praised to the skies without any recognition or acknowledgment of what I feel to be its weaknesses.

Solan said:

Well it is meant to be a rare oddity. It is really uncommon for the Act deck to send out it's final card. But after all, the consequence is that it makes you automatically lose the game so I think the designers meant it to be that way.

But I do agree CotDP is the best first expansion, simply because it does not have that much of a difficulty increase. KiY and LitT are my personal favorites for small-boxes however!

mi-go hunter said:

Unless of course, you bought an expansion because you found the base game way too easy! It's the boring old answer of "the best expansion (whatever that might be) is not necessarily the best expansion for you".

I bought CotDP & BGotW (at the same time) as my first expansions. I use one at a time and I would certainly say that CotDP does make the game more fun. Just last night we ended up having two investigators out of 4 devoured during normal play. The 5th Elder Sign (out of the 6th needed) was put on the board by beating Ithiqua in an Other World encounter.

BGotW seems to be knocked here, and I understand the reasons why. I play with with a modified Herald (I don't add a doom token for monster surges). This means that the corruption cards get used every game.

Why I'm writing this on a KiY thread is all a mystery to me (I don't own it and probably won't own it for a long time due to being poor for the next year!)

In general, I'd say Arkham Horror asks more of the players than many games. You may need to make a Houserule or ten so that you get the most out of the game for you and/or your game group.

Krawhitham said:

That's not really right either. You can compromise on this by rolling a die on a monster surge and adding a doom token on a 1-3 or a 1-2. ::Shrug:: or not. Just throwing out an alternative that would still have the herald be fun, but not quite as toothless.

Avi_dreader said:

Good suggestion. I was also thinking of slimming down the Green part of the corruption deck beause I've only been into the reds once. Perhaps if a corruption is forced upon you by an encounter you draw from the bottom? It's very early stages.

I always liked the King in Yellow's "choice" mechanic. I thought that all future heralds would implement this in some way. Not so much...

How about this for the Black Goat herald:

On a monster surge, you add a doom token, unless the first player opts to take two corruptions.

Krawhitham said:

That's what we do

Tibs said:

How about that, *and* roll an additional die and add a doom token on a 1 :'D (Hell, I think I'm going to play with that mod). ;'D I just can't help but feel that the card should be a bit doomier. Actually, Tib's suggestion may be fine just as it is. It depends on if it consistently pushes you into the red corruptions. If not, consider bumping up the unless condition to three corruptions.

Getting this back on topic (and away from trying to fix a Herald I can't stand):

Compelling analysis, Solan. One I've not really seen expressed. It made me think about my own position on the King in Yellow.

1. Agreed, sorta. And by “agreed”, I mean I know what you mean, and by “sorta”, I mean “it kinda depends on your game.”

Amongst many veterans, the primary focus of motivation is gate-sealing: seals win games, nothing else matters. If it’s too easy to get seals, there’s no “oomph”, and since encounters and other obstacles are often judged “extraneous”, there’s only one method left to heighten excitement: outracing the Doom Track. You fill your track before the AO fills its track. In this regard, KY doesn’t help at all for the precise reasons stated: tweaked distribution and no bursts.

On the other hand, if you want to play a more combat-oriented game, KY does this pretty well by increasing chances of surges, and moving the Terror Track. Lots of trophies to kill, a street-sweeper’s paradise. Played with, say, Kingsport alone, monsters spill out like a busted dam and more come every turn. A certain focus is taken away from the Gates, and players have to watch their health and maneuverability in the Streets as they remain outnumbered. Before Black Goat, this kind of game kept me very interested, and contributed quite a bit as to why I love Kingsport.

What you call a “far-from-even trade” I find less divergent. But this, of course, is playing style (non-quantifiable). Where I do not have too much problem with the distribution, the lack of gate bursts is indeed tragic, and the primary reason why I have retired all big KY cards from play (except for Intermission, which is just one card shuffled into my base game Mythos, and lots of fun when it finally pops up).

2. Spot on. The Next Act mechanic is too easily smothered and rendered useless (even HELPFUL). The only way to save this is with some kind of anti-dilution House Rule, but that’s merely a way to simulate a larger amount of Next Act cards shuffled into your deck, and that just feels like Hastur butting into every game like a nosy neighbor. With other better mechanics in play, I just don’t need that anymore, and there are a lot of other Mythos out there that move every monster to cover for the other aspect of Next Act cards.

3. Personal preference. Frankly, I find every expansion has a pile of both good and bad encounters, and doing a mass judgment based on text seems based a bit more on emotion than objectivity. Non-quantifiable: to each his own. (Although I would certainly be interested in your “objective analysis” claim.)

4. Touring Performance is just stupid. First, because the very reasons you defined in 1-3 are now all crammed together and painfully obvious as they present themselves like a thumbtack in your foot. Within three turns of the first time I tried Touring, I knew it was foolish. (I actually suspected it was a mistake after opening possession draws!) I immediately aborted the game and restarted it shuffled properly. And second, because it ruins the entire surprise of the expansion all at once. I don’t read my cards ahead of time. EVER. Until a card comes up in a game, I don’t know it exists…and the surprises (ooo, never seen this one before!) last for WEEKS. (There are still River Dock and Darke’s Carnival Encounters I have never read.)

So it looks like I give points 2 and 4 to you, and points 1 and 3 to Arag. But what does that mean after I say that I love Lurker for its Gate Bursts and dislike Dark Pharaoh for its screw-ups, but love Dark Pharaoh’s dense Egyptian theme and dislike Lurker for being a bit limp and sterile in the same department? It’s funny, but when it comes to small boxes, you either get Theme or Mechanics, but you won’t get both. (And then there's Black Goat, where you get neither.)

jgt7771 said:

I disagree... Black Goat has plenty of Theme. Cult encounters and corruptions. The only problem is the mechanics for distributing these highly thematic elements of the expansion don't work ;'D

Avi_dreader said:

And the problem with joining the cult is that it is rare to do so, the cost is quite steep (not worth it for two toughness of monsters), and to get some real benefits out of it you have to become corrupted as well. What's the point?

The point is that by becoming a member, you infiltrate the Cult of the Thousand and that helps you stop their Ancient One summoning rites.

Oh wait.

For what it's worth, I designed an investigator who passes his personal story by getting a cult encounter... and the failure effect is quite brutal! Unfortunately, it should be noted that the only times I've played this investigator was in Black Goat-only games and he's always failed the story (to fail, the doom + terror levels must be 9 or higher, so that gives you a good amount of time). Isn't that sad?

JGT, thanks for both steering things back on topic and providing such a thoughtful, in-depth response.

1. So if I understand you correctly, in such combat-oriented games the Terror Track becomes the real threat rather than the Doom track? You are right that I see the central gaming dynamic of Arkham as a race to seal the AO away before he awakens. Therein lies the challenge. Of course the Terror Track can also awaken the AO, but it always seemed to me that if you didn't have to really worry about the Doom Track filling or too many gates opening, then the monsters that come from multiple surges could be handled. That's why I see the need for a reasonably fast-paced Doom Track.

2. Nothing to add here.

3. I wouldn't say non-quantifiable if the judgment is based on a recognized criteria, subjective though it might be to some extent. Let me be more precise as to what I mean. What I crave most from the Other World cards is uniqueness, encounters that are more than just pass this test or lose 2 stamina/delayed/no encounter/a monster appears. I recognize the necessity of having a certain number of such encounters, but I still desire variety in the rest. KiY does have a few unusual encounters, but fewer than Dunwich or CotDP, though more than the following small-box expansions.

4. Again, nothing more to say.

Interesting argument about theme or mechanics in the small box expansions. Now that you mention it, I can see what you mean. I can also see that you're no more fond of BGotW than I am . Thank goodness the big box expansions are so well done!

Speaking of which, there's a question that your session reports have sparked in me. You always use only a single additional board in your games (which I almost cannot imagine now) and your group has experienced every board. Which do they like the most and which do they like the least, and why? Which is your personal favorite and least favorite extra board, and why?

mi-go hunter said:

I already said that it's rare. Well. Implied. As for the other stuff. I'd pay in stamina. And if there were a reliable way to get the cult cards, I'd probably use them I like the results of many of the encounters there and even an item like Shub's Milk is underrated, if you have a good combat investigator who is blessed, you can use it to gather all monsters into one spot and have him wipe them all out in one turn; lots of trophies and a clear board can be worth an unconsciousness.

Solan said:

Not precisely. Think of it as one of those huge video game RPGs, like Mass Effect or Fallout. The “main quest” is to stop the AO, but there are dozens of “side quests” for character development and entertainment. When my Cult plays (session reports), it generally takes all night because it’s about having fun, both inside and outside the game. “Speed Arkham”, or Race the Doom Track, simply ends the game too soon. Yes, that IS the challenge…but beating the game is not the highest priority. (Well, it SEEMS to be while we play, but once the game is over, the win or loss isn’t what is remembered.)

My Cult likes to “side-quest”. Wings likes to kill things. A LOT. She likes games that give her targets. Pizza likes avoiding being reduced to a smudge; that kind of defensive play could use a few extra turns as a buffer. Zebra likes to shop, visit odd Locations, and cast wacky Spells like Summon Monster and Call Friend. Fast games would not give him the time. Players who want two-hour games that play like the end of Aliens would not appreciate our “dilly-dallying”. But since we only play once a month or so, a twelve-turn Black Goat blitz just ends the fun before it gets started.

So it isn’t quite all about waking the Ancient One, not when they fear the Terror Track will close the General Store, or the Wraith that won’t come down and get dead, or getting LiTaS and stuck being only a commentator for several minutes. A “casually brisk” Doom Track does fine for us, and for a while, the King in Yellow provided that. It just didn’t age as well as it could have.

Solan said:

Interesting argument about theme or mechanics in the small box expansions. Now that you mention it, I can see what you mean. I can also see that you're no more fond of BGotW than I am . Thank goodness the big box expansions are so well done!

My only "fondness" for Black Goat had to do with its modularity: it was the first expansion ever to have Gate Bursts that only required Arkham in play. Hence, its Mythos was the perfect complement for Innsmouth’s Local-Bursts-Only Mythos. For a player that doesn’t play everything at once, that was a GODSEND. It’s just a tragic shame that the rest of the mechanics failed for me. However, Lurker has been much better in all ways that Black Goat needed to be, so I just don’t see much of BG anymore. (Adopted the item cards and the monsters into my Innsmouth box.)

Solan said:

My “unqualified” favorite board is still Innsmouth. Dangerous in threat and fascinating in encounters. Don’t tell anyone, but I kinda dig getting arrested, just so I have the chance to break out, or get tossed into the sea. I love having a high Sneak Investigator during Martial Law (like Splinter Cell-lite or something). However, if I have an Investigator who’s obviously built for combat, I might prefer a monster-rich Kingsport game. (Innsmouth doesn’t always guarantee a combat-heavy game, but Kingsport always does.) The only reason Dunwich lands at the bottom for me is it remains unpredictable. Even playing with just Dunwich, the Mythos deck can still find unusually adept ways to avoid putting much on it. (I wonder what would happen if the Dunwich Mythos deck were built like the Innsmouth Mythos deck: locals only?)

I posed your question to the Cult members; I will let you know.