I vaguely remember finding an elite advance package for Sisters of Battle pre-Blood of Martyrs concerning a SoB who was exiled/etc for being touched by the warp and exiled from the sisters for it... or some such. I've been combing over all my books the last few days looking for it again, and for the life of me I can't find it. Pretty sure It's not the Repentia or Oblatia sisters as far as I can tell, as I'm pretty sure I remember there being some psyker stuff involved in the package. Anyone got a clue what my memory is telling me or was I just smoking crack?

Its not an elite advance, its a background package, located in the Radical's Handbook, "Denounced and Condemned."

Not sure how I would handle it with the new Sororitas profession. It refers to them being kicked out of their order, but picked up by the inquisition.

I would probably say that having this package means they no longer acquire gear from their order. Not sure how I would handle their starting gear. I would probably suggest using the weapons from the IH version, but give them shield robes. Remove the restriction on possessing money/force them to track ammo.

Use the package as follows.

Character has access to Rank 1 SoB advances, has all the SoB starting skills, talents, traits and characteristic advancement table. But from there on out treat the character as eitehr a guardsman or Arbitrator.

Well the package doesn't influence the characters faith, its more they're just kicked out from their order, so they should maintain access to the Pure Faith talents. Don't really see why they should lose the entire class just for a background package.

Still, they lose possibly one of the greatest aspects of their class, the constant support of their order.

Ah-hah! Thanks! For some reason I kept looking elsewhere in the books forgetting it was a background package.

KommissarK said:

I assume some of their developement with faith powers and skills comes from tutoring, training and lessons from other senior sisters and trainers. I would imagine it is difficult to learn some of the sister specific skills/alternate ranks without having access to their tutelage.

Peacekeeper_b said:

That's essentially the way I interpreted it. I was hunting for this background package for an NPC I was introducing to the party. Going to read over it again to see if my original idea would still be workable, but the short version is that this NPC is the twin sister of the Inquisitor that the party worked for. Said Inquisitor was a sanctioned psyker, though she wasn't a very strong one. The Sister had been a member of the Sororitas for some time before her 'trait' manifested and she was put out. Not entirely certain just yet how far into the Sororitas she advanced before this happened, but that's the general idea.

If you took Denounced and Condemned, along with being from Maccabeus Quintus... well, you could spam Faith talents like there was no tomorrow. Possible 5 Fate at start. Ouch...

Keep in mind you can also get fate from divination So thats maximum of 3 from Imperial world, +1 from Maccabeus, +1 from Denounced and Condemned, +1 from divination. Woo 6 fate. Guardsmen can get some pretty high amounts too via their background, but that locks them off from getting pure faith.. So they max at 5 or 4 with Pure Faith.

Anyways, I see no reason why a background package would condense someone down to a "guardsman" role, but as always its up to GM fiat. Its fine to do something like that for the themed Sisters (Hospitaller.etc), but I disagree with that being used for plain ol' Sororitas. Its meant to add depth of role play, not slap them on the rump and usher them into an entirely new class.

Rakiel said:

Argh. I wish that I could use an edit function or something, so apologies for double post. I am tired and forgot to make an amendment.

I don't really see how Faith abilities can specifically be taught; that ends up treating Faith more as "magic" than what it is - manifestations of pure and undying faith. That has to come from the person themselves, not from a lesson given to them. A hell of a lot of the more esoteric and obvious faith abilities would be rare as hell and not something that should be appearing all over the place (personally I have always felt a lot of them fall into Living Saint categories). If the Sister herself has faith to do them she has faith, she doesn't have to be told how much faith she has to manifest them.

Going to have to agree with Rakiel here, in that I don't view the Pure Faith talents as being something one is "taught" or is "trained in." They represent miraculous manifestations of faith, coming about purely because of their faith in the Emperor.

The Denounced and Condemned package does not alter the characters faith (just how they are viewed by the Ecclisarchy and their order), and for one to remain true even under such pressure is probably even a testament to a greater faith than most.

Also, mechanically, it just feels like a nasty can of worms to mix and match professions. The old Sororitas class didn't have to do it, and they had their versions of faith talents, so why should the new version have to?

KommissarK said:

Because, frankly, it does make sense.

Sisters of Battle should have never been their own career. Its an alternate path/starting package at best. Just the same as Dialoguous or Famulous.

Denounced and Candemned means they are ousted from the order. So yeah, I can see how they wouldnt gain any of the other training aspects. Such as Lore skills, combat training, weapon training, peers, talents and so forth. But as mercenaries, wandering warriors, bodyguards and so forth we know the Guardsmen career is suppose to cover.

So they have access to all of the cool ass rank 1 SoB talents/skills and their characterisitc advancements but since they are no longer sisters of battle I think it has more flavor for them to use another career path.

But in truth the Denounced and COndemned start package should either be A) opened to other careers as that is where the sister is at now or B) an elite package.

That assumes that all their skills come solely from the training and what not of their ordos - which is great if they constantly have time to go back and train, which is a massive time requirement, especially if they start to go to areas where they are less represented as travel is relatively difficult.

I will admit to two faults in my reasoning currently; firstly being the fact I am exhausted to hell and second being I have never really delved into Sororitas. I don't play them, but I have played with several people that make good use of them. How wide spread would each group be? Would they be able to just go to "any" Sororitas holding and receive training? Its something thats not really manifest with anyone else, barring say, Tech-Priests getting Mechandendrites. Much of the stuff could conceiveably be covered by them seeking alternate sources of training, for them being Sororitas influences their world view as much as anything else (ie: they would praise knowledge more than a guardsman, as reflected in their lore abilities open to them. They could, say, seek scholars of esoteric lore, read up on subjects via Inquisitional resources.etc.etc) as opposed to completely just turning heel face and becoming a de-facto Guardsman.

The whole losing Peer's is explicitly covered in the Denounced and Condemned, but nothing else.

I personally see it as opening up large role play opportunity to have a Sororitas go through such a crisis, for though their purity is untouched (they have pure faith, so its not a crisis of faith), they are no longer what they have always identified themselves as being. To just turn them into another guardsman with (arguably) better stat advances seems like a disservice to me. Especially when we speak of "cool rank 1 SoB abilities" - which are really what? IHB Sororitas (who I feel are much better to use with Denounced and Condemned) give very little, and if you want to open up BoM (which I feel kind of go against the idea of Denounced and Condemned, since they represent fairly more specifically typed Sororitas) it can indeed be some cool abilities, but they are a bit more intertwined into the Sororitas workings. Or whatever you want to call it. Ordos? House? I am tired, I don't know.

As said though, its really up to GM fiat.

Rakiel said:

Well we each see it differently, but from the way you stated you see D&C you agree that it is more of a advance package then a starting package.

Its a massive character change so I can definitely see treating it as an elite advance, but it doesn't replace any actual rank nor add a death threat to the character, which tend to be the issues with the others.

*Shrug*

Honestly some of the stuff its hard to tell what is meant to be the delineation between an elite advance and a background, barring those two specific aspects which it has neither of. I see it as no more problematic than Moritat.