We have one question regarding Mimic, and that is whether it transforms into a "beastman" indefinitely (until it is killed) or just for the one activation you get by playing the card (this is the way we've interpreted it thus far).

What's the general interpretation of its card text? (English is a second language, so we might misinterpret a nuance or two on card texts).

Thanks in advance for any input!

Mimic

Play this card when a hero opens a chest. The chest is alive, and its contents cannot be distributed until it is killed. Move the chest marker to an adjacent space. Treat it as a Beastman and activate it immediately. After its activation, the hero's turn resumes. If the chest is killed, the contents of the chest are immediately distributed.

Totte said:

The chest is continued to be treated as a Beastman until it is 'killed'. If the heroes do not kill it it may remain as a beastman for the rest of the game, activating each turn, and the heroes will never get the treasure. It does not tell you on the card to cease treating the chest as a beastman anywhere, except that once it is killed you immediately distribute the treasure (and since it is being treated as a beastman, once killed you remove it).

this is as clear as it gets in Descent

Thanks for the answer. I expect my players won't be too happy about this. Even though it was one of them who pointed out to me that it doesn't say "once only" on the card. I suppose it was my RPG-background that led me to let the mimic "go back to sleep".

Totte said:

Keep in mind that the chest is "treated like a beastman" but that doesn't mean you need to use a beastman figure for it. I know our group likes to put an actual beastman figure on top of the chest (as a reminder that it's alive) and I wouldn't be surprised if others did too, but technically if you're running low on beastmen figures, you don't need one for mimic.

Related question; In RtL would the mimic get any upgrades you've bought for Beastman, i.e. the extra black die the beastman lord can buy?

Vye King said:

I would be inclined to say yes. The mimic inherits the stats of a beastman, so I would take that to mean he inherits any beastman upgrades currently purchased for a particular advanced campaign as well.

I could see an argument for "it only gains the stats of a plain copper/silver/gold beastman" (ie: no avatar or other OL upgrades) because it's not actually a beastman, but let's see what some of the other regulars think.

I say yes. It is treated like a beastman. So if humanoids are in gold level, it should have gold stats.

It should be a full beastman including tier upgrades and avatar upgrades. Otherwise you're not treating it as a beastman, you're treating it as a beastman-lite.

Is it still also a chest though? Could SoB mana and kata carry the beastman chest around?

Badend said:

It is a chest, but it is being treated as a beastman. Since Mata and Kata can't carry a beastman around, they can't carry this particular chest.

I beg to differ. It IS still a chest, which can be moved around by SoB M&K.

Parathion said:

But of course!

Parathion said:

I'll freely admit I am mentally adding in the phrase "...instead of a chest" to the whole 'treat it as a beastman' bit, but that is what is happening actually, right? Or do you allow heroes to walk up to the mimic, stand in the sames space and pay 2MP to open it?

No, of course you don't.
It is not being treated as a chest it is being treated as a beastman.
Therefore, beastman rules apply, not chest rules. M&K can't pick up beastmen, so they can't pick up a mimic.

Well, the Mimic card explicitly says "If the chest is killed, ...".

If it wouldn´t still be a chest, how could you ever kill it to get the contents? You could only kill the beastman and never get the contents.

Applying strictly RAW, a hero could step on the Mimic, spend 2 MP to open it, but it´s contents are still not distributed, since it is a Mimic. (Spinning this tale a bit further, the OL could spring another Trap (Chest) on that stupid hero, though if that would be a Killer Chest trap card, things are starting to get really weird ).

Parathion said:

I expect better from you...
I didn't say it is not a chest. It is still a chest. It is just being treated as a beastman, which means beastman rules, not chest rules, are applied to it - even though it is a chest and is still 'the chest'.
If you were treating it as a chest, you couldn't kill it since you can't attack chests, or kill them. So the heroes could never get their treasure.

Corbon said:

I concur. The rules aren't as explicit as they could be, but I think it's safe to say the chest can't be manipulated as a chest would be while it is in "monster form." After the mimic is killed the treasure is distributed immediately, partly because it's a regular chest again, and partly because the mimic card says to do that as soon as it dies.

@Corbon:

So, (all?) beastmen rules are to be applied, (all?) chest rules are not to be applied, according to your opinion.

What happens then if a hero with Necromancy kills the beastman(chest) and claims that he wants to animate that beastman(chest)?

According to your claim, the chest is treated as a beastman, which is a normal unnamed monster eligible for Necromancy. Or do you suddenly remember that it is still a chest and apply the rule that chests are not eligible for Necromancy?

My claim is that both sets of rules (chest and beastman) are still valid and thus SoB M&K can carry it around.

The "Treat it as a beastman" part is an addition and it is necessary and relevant for its activation mechanics and the fact that it needs to be attackable and killable (which is not given for a chest).

I can see no indication that the chest rules are forced out of validity during the Mimic´s short life.

Parathion said:

The chest is treated as a beastman , but when he dies, he is not a beastman anymore. So when he dies it is a chest again and it cannot be reanimated. Even so, the chest is not a NORMAL unnamed monster.

This is kinda ridiculous from parathion i would say. Things are simple. You have ALREADY opened the chest so in terms of game there is no chest anymore. When you opened it is transformed to a full fledged beastman when you kill it, it doesn't turn again to a chest you just distribute the contents as you have already opened it. What in hell could make you believe that you can carry around a beastman or enter the same square and open him? What was not clear as TREAT it as a beastman? Are we making rules as we go? Isn't descent complicated enough so we have to make crazy rules? I am sorry to talk (write) like this but i think there is a limit in someone acting as knowledgable. Ignoring the fact that IT IS A beastman for all purposes you choose to still deal it as chest to produce crazy results as mata carrying around a beastman because it happened to be a chest one time in his life. Anyway i think this case is pretty much solved (there wasn't any case to begin with though).

Shouting around in forums with no arguments always looked pretty inferior to me (but that may just be me).

So, suddenly it IS a beastman for all purposes? The chest is transformed into a beastman? Very interesting, where do you read that from? If you kill a full fledged beastman in my game, you won´t get any treasure, be sure about that.

So, you choose to ignore the card text, which says "if the chest is killed" instead of "if the beastman is killed"?

I think discussing with you is really pointless, then. And if you don´t like crazy rules and crazy discussions about them, you´d better stay away from Descent an this forum, just an advice.

Parathion said:

Once the chest-that-is-treated-as-a-beastman is killed then it ceases being a ctitaab. The treasure is distrubuted and the card effects have ended .

It is you that is either picking and choosing which rules to apply (not acceptable) or making ridiculous (and I use that word deliberately) assertions that are self contradictory.
If you use chest rules, then the ctitaab's space can be entered and opened for 2MP to earn another round of treasure. That is clearly ridiculous on its own.
If you use beastman rules, then the ctitaab's space cannot be entered by heroes. Which directly contradicts the chest rules. You cannot be using all of both rules. Therefore, if you insist on using both rules, you must be picking and choosing which of each to use, with no basis other than personal choice.

You position is unsustainable.

But then, if you can't see that the chest rules are forced out of validity then there is no value to responding to you at this time. That statement is so far wrong we can't possibly communicate. So I'm stopping, without even finishing this post.

The situation is ambiguous. Stating that one side is "clearly correct" is contradicted simply by the fact that you two are arguing. Of course, on this forum, there tends to be a strong disinclination to admit that anything is ambiguous, opting instead to dish out caustic rhetoric and excessive overconfidence in the objective superiority of one's own opinion.

phelanward said:

I can only assume you either haven't been here wrong or don't read many threads. There are many, many times when things are said to be ambiguous. There's even an entire subforum dedicated to helping the next version of the FAQ clarify them.

You're right, of course. I haven't been here wrong, and don't read any threads. This is my first post. My bad.