hello all

too be honest this is a light hearted post, i just wanted too thank FFG and congratulate them on dark heresy, especially on the adepta sororita

1stly the battle sisters play a great role in the game in short there the paladin they fill a much needed gap in groups because the sisters give us a character who is so faithful that she has no doubt she also however displays faith powers which show the emperor is now a god which helps us imagine the 41st imperium better

but 2ndly the sororita fill a much needed combat role that of a space marine or sister a tough lethal uncompromiseing warrior dedicated and resolute and hard as hell

but finally im very glad the battle sisters have gotten such attention in heresy books as they have 1stly because the sisters are the chamber militant of the ordo hereticus and the milita and chamber militant of the ecclesiarchy and thus should be within the game thats very much so focused on that particular branch of the inquisition

but 3rdly i am a girl gamer ive been playing various roleplaying games since i was 12 years old, and its nice too see a femine charcter class within the game

pople often mistake that because girls want too do girlie things that this means we dont want too game etc which is most certainly not the case its more that we want too play more femine options

what i like most about the sororita is that they fill that void but not in a weak way the battle sisters are litterally female space marines but with faith powers rather than augmentations, as a ground force rather than a space force

the entire concept of them is awesome warrior nun paladins of the emperor

i will be honest despite my long playing of warhammer 40k since a young girl i never touched the imperium until the battle sisters finally got made because before the sisters there was no army a girl could really associate with

only the eldar and elves had such forces and i was over joyed after years of rumours too finally see the sisters

thats pretty much the focus for this topic as a girl gamer i am just saying that i think its fantastic that the 40k universe has a strong femine character type like the sisters for girls too play with

and would love too hear your thoughts on this

and 2ndly in just thanking fantasy flight for the sheer spotlight focus they have given the sisters both because of how utterly cool the battle sisters actually are and im glad thats not been lost in dark heresy and because there a class that litterally is made for the game and im actually glad it was recognised that the battle sisters suited dark heresy more than the space marines and that they got there own game but finally because the sororita really are a great class for girl gamers too play and im so glad that dark heresy has given them so much attention

you might wonder why im ranting on its because in truth many games fail too give or even consider girl gamers in there development and also because when i heard of dark heresy i was hesitant i had the same worries as many gamers that it would just be a game of worship the space marine which happens a lot too be honest

i personally feel the marines get far too much attention all in all they are a small force in fact bye comparison a chapter 1000 marines is much smaller than a part of a sororita order being broken down into large convents a 1000 each and smaller ones with 200 each and then there smallest being about 100 sororita let alone the sheer size of the imperial guard

but the 40k universe seems too be wakeing up and finally giveing attention too the other armies of the emperor who bye far and in large are much more important in the imperium's function than the marines who are small strike force called in only for sudden strike missions where forces need too be transported droped and deployed right into the heart of the enemy

im very impressed FFG didnt fall into any such trappings and have focused on everything else and left the marines there own personal game dedicated too the kind of missions the space marines actually get sent on in other words SPACE MISSIONS hulks and sudden strike orbital drops

the reason why is because others have given many 40k fans a miss conception that marines are used on the front lines or battle fields of the emperor all the time where as in truth the battle sisters are much more used in these fights and they would be used sparingly when compared too the imperial guard

the truth is the marines are rarely used only in certain situations like ive stated above so id just like too say GOOD GOING FFG i do note that some other gamers ive played with actually find it almost confuseing that in dark heresy the main hard as nails super warrior fighting character type class is the battle sister showing in truth just how rare it is when we girls get ta crush skulls

thankfully my own gaming group is very versed in the 40k lore and is very gender mixed and thus we dont have such issues we know the sororita are basicly female marines without genetic augmentations and instead with faith powers and that they suit the dark heresy game concept much better

too show how good a thing this is and why both GW and FFG deserve a pat on the back for it we also bought deathwatch and our gm was at a bit of a loss because its well the space marine game but what happens when several of ur game group are girls and want too play girls he has actualy considered altering the deathwatch game adapting it with the heresy rules too use both space marines and sororita so both male and female gamers in our group can have gender options after all they are pretty much the same but different anyway i hope this 1st post didnt come off too long or silly

final note (please forgive my spelling i am dislexic and have a spell corrector program on but it doesnt seem too catch every word or bit of grammer)

I feel that Dark Heresy on the whole is actually quite friendly and inclusive of female gamers, with not the least reason being the Sororitas; all through the DH and RT line you see plenty of examples of headlining female NPCs, women given as the premier example of a given class and so on, and in (most) cases they are appropriately dressed for their role. Armor covers everything, no ridiculous boob or middriff slots, and shots of the Sororitas especially place them in an active role, rather than passively standing in the background. They're sexy and scary, feminine warriors that will give anyone a bad day if they treat them as anything less than the real threat they are.

All around, I think FFG either intentionally did this, or somehow forgot to include the idiotic cheesecake that is often included in a RPGs today. Either way, they get a gold star.

Trodamus said:

I don't know that I would call most Sororitas sexy. Scary maybe but definitely not sexy. That being said I love them just the same. They are my principal army for 40K TT. I say scary becuase they are bordeline crazies with serious firepower. Their faith is absolute pretty much. That makes it a potent weapon but on a personal level, many of us would probably be unconfomfortable in the same room with them even with the weapons and armor. Its a powerful intensity.

Now Illich Henriquez's Famulous is kind of sexy in that skin tight black leather bodice and boots.

from france

i haven't finish reading it but so far i liked it the way they are described.

i have only two downs point so far

why the helmet at only lv 5 did i miss something here?

teh repenta is for me wrong in the fluff once sins are cure and of course if the sister is still leaving they came come back to the ordre. can't rember in wich army book or novel but i am pretty sur that one sister trsuck by dicease ashame to not participate in a batle became repentia and once her soul and honor clean came back to take their order.

the one sista that became rogue trader is a curious example of a sista going in another life but it is interesting

i dunno i do kinda like the bobs and makeup and inbuilt corset and breastcups are kind of sexy but elese wise i do agree there a very none sexual nun like lot really

i can imagine if a sororita was asked on a date the poor would be asker might end up in hospital lol

im glad too see so much reply's and i agree with most of them too be honest

too the laughing god: ive read everything on sororita lore and its stated as basicly nun warriors with links too and being raised bye various elements of the imperium they are quite well educated

however ive never seen anything about punctuation and did make point of my dislexia (point my mac book pro actually helps a lot with this as bad as it is without this machine id be far worse in grammer spelling etc)

that said i utterly agree with trodamus FFG deserve a lot of credit there have been other attempts at warhammer and 40k rpg games and none of them have held a flag near what FFG has done

in reply too 8 spider im still waiting for my copy of the martyrs too arrive so cant overly comment but from what i do know of the repentia

they are a bit strange there sisters who loose there faith powers or have them changed and take on a sort of suicide oath too die in battle but in regards too the sins from what i remember the sins dont even actually have too be real they can be imagined sins

in essence its not that a sororita has failed the emperor and become a repentia its that she feels that she has

however you are right she can leave the repentia life at any time and return too rejoin her main sisterhood in fact saint celestine was a repentia who became a saint

so i guess its more a feeling that a sororita can gain and must purge before she can return too her main sisterhood but also the repentia vow is actually seen as revered in the sisterhood "seeking only too die in the emperors service"

ill most certainly be reading the bit of the book myself and might have more for you after

from france

you have to remenber that what constitue a sin in the eclesiarchy eyes and also sororitas is not what we could conisder sin. well take teh seven dedaly sins for example:

* Gula (gluttony)

not present as a crimes against the emperor unless it make you poor people go hungry and you are a hospitaler if not well thin cardinal are few

* Fornicatio (fornication, lust)

nowhere it is cited as a crimes agains the one who sit on the golden throne. i remnber that a sororitas had a lovers (damned i have too find my sources)

* Avaritia (avarice/greed) same thought tha foor glutony excepte that most sororitas make oaths of being poor and some abot for the cardinal well tithe are thief anyway

* Tristitia (sorrow/despair)

no chance for them he whose light is the astronomican make them so strong in their faith that at worts they became repentia

* Ira (wrath)

hihi this one makes me laugh it's a virtue for them as they fight for he his the father of mankind

* Acedia (acedia)/ (discouragement) same as dispair he who killed horus make them too strong so at worst repentia
* Vanagloria (vainglory)

no way if the succomb to that they became repetia as he who unified terra make them humble.

* Superbia (hubris, pride)

well this one is tricky pride can be a stimulante for those who fight for the one who ordained theh great crusade but his favorite son succomb to that; so for this sin i will say yes.

"however ive never seen anything about punctuation and did make point of my dislexia (point my mac book pro actually helps a lot with this as bad as it is without this machine id be far worse in grammer spelling etc)"

honestly batle sister hubber we all have problems, me for example english is not my first tongue, hence the warning in all my post. it s not this or the time you have been here or the number of friends or article that make you respectable but your enthousiasme and skills.

so for me because you bring a interesting subject so far you got my respect. and your hanicap is not one for me; relax and enjoy a game in witch the good burns planet while in contrast the bad burns planet

thank you very much 8 spider for the support and compliment

and i loved the very interesting part of what would constitute sins for imperials and sororita

your right the 7 deadly sins arent even a good basis as wrath for the emperor and pride in his work would actually be virtues in the imperium

i also actually recall from many works about the ordo hereticus and thus the sisters that many traits we would see as bad are actually good in the imperium

and thank you for what you said about my subject im glad people are finding it a good point

hopefully my blood of the martyrs will be with me tommrow so i should be updateing on that

from france

thank. it seem that i make a lot of typo but i have a excuse it was late and i was resisting morphéee arms. don't forget to download the "heresy beggets rettribution". the free supplements about ascendant sororita.

Kinda off topic here, but the 8spider started it:

While Wrath is most definitely a virtue in the Imperium, I don't think Pride would be. In fact, as the Imperium and Creed go, I'm certain they would view the sin of Pride as probably the worst of the worst just as in the hierarchy of the seven deadly sins, it tends to be referred to as the sin of sins.

The sin of Pride is closely related to Hubris. It's not referring to having pride in your work or pride in your family any of that. It is an overweening pride, thinking far too high of your self, and a preoccupation with your self above all else. It's a gross over-estimation of your own abilities and your own worth. At best, if can lead one to think of themselves above their station and question their superiors (that's a death sentence) and at worse, it can shatter the Imperium (that's... er... a bigger death sentence?). It is the sin that makes one think "sure, most folks can't handle reading this book without sprouting tentacles, but, you know what, I'm better then they were, I've got a stronger mind, I can handle the power..." or "sure, xenos are filth that can never be trusted or dealt with least their taint corrupt me, but you know what, I'm a damned sight smarter then those ridiculous Eldar and that Naval Admiral put together; I'm certain I can handle some dealings with them and come out ahead..." or "sure, my father and my father's father, and his father, and his father, and so on, were all indentured slaves who mined mud, but you know what, I'm better then that, I'm better then this, we're all better then this! That foreman ain't gonna whip us no more, no-sir-re-sir! There's gonna be some serious changes around here!" -bam! Pride!

And lets not forget the greatest shinning example of the sin of pride and what damage it can bring -the example of Warmaster Horus. We all know how things went once his britches got a bit too big...

I don't see any reason why wrath wouldn't be a sin. It was in the real world during persecution of heretics and crusades.

What is the question is who the wrath is directed against. These sins are mostly sins when directed against people in one's own group, not against sinners.

Kinda funny that there is a huge controversy about the lack of female Space Marines over on the Deathwatch Forum, but no one complains about the all-female Sisters of Battle. Just sayin'...

Adeptus-B said:

I would assume because SoB's are one of many choices in DH, while in DW its "You are a Space Marine. You are always a Space Marine. Space Marines are always male."

Unless the game is explicitly being run as being SoB only, DH doesn't force only one gender characters.

too adeptus b, actually if u read this post weve been talking about the fact the sororita are the female space marines and saying about how it works like this in death watch uve just space marines in other words just hard boys, but in heresy uve the sororita aka hard girls

too 8 spider: yars i got the download for the palantine also my blood of martyrs arrived and im in love i like what theyve done the one in inquistion handbook is a sorta generic sister her training interupted bye serving a inquistor where as the ones in blood are more specialised sisters girls whose training hasnt been so distrupted and are more dedicated too there sororita careers and thus are basicly members of the sisters sub groups more like there being requisitioned too a inquisitor rather than taken bye him

i found the new way of doing a sororita quite cool being that rather than a generic sister you can play a dedicated full true member of one of the sub orders

and too be honest in all 4 i found this much more accurate too the sisters i also like that the famoulous got into the book because me and my freinds were always saying she should be

but too pick up on a idea

it would be interesting just in the name of fairness if FFG did a heresy version of the space marine starting from scout maybe rather than veteran as is in deathwatch and did a deathwatch sororita thatd be quite cool

well wrath def isnt a sin for imperials note in the faith powrers theres a whole section of them called the emperors "wrath"

and pride is def not a a sin now that i remember there was actually one of the old 40k quotes from an inquisitor saying that not haveing pride in your work for the emperor was a sin

but too inquisitor sapiens: it might be relative as in wrath agaisnt the enemies of the imperium is ok but wrath on a fellow loyal imperial isn't pride in working for the emperor is ok but pride in ones appearance or self image isn't

from france

remenber also that:

a) fabulous are the more playable in infiltration groupe because they listen before shooting

b) a sister can be given better equipement to goes along the deathwatch (it s not my opinion but it s writen in the book) including this dmaned helmet.)

c) faith power are problematic in a realsite ( for what it is worth in this game) but wonderful in a cinematic cmpagne

d) even the more open minded sister can harm menber of the groupe when performing miracle.

e) honestly when a sister bring back a dead character dont let her pay the miracle but lets the formerly dead character burn it in her place.

f ) any player who want a carapace armor shouldn't try to steal a hospitaler (hey she got her carapace armor well before me), they will be dead in a moment, if not by the hospitaler then by those that she help.

more after but i have to work

Battle_Sister_Huber said:

The phrase "the wrath of God" comes from the Bible. The wrath of the righteous is a standard idea in Christianity.

The seven deadly sins are sins not because the act (anger, eating food, sexual attraction) in itself is bad, but because they are overdone (as in gluttony) or because they are directed against the wrong target or done in excess (being attracted to somebody who is not my spouse) . Look at the Commandments. They're all about coveting the stuff of "your neighbor," not of the Canaanites.

I'm pretty sure that harboring violent thoughts against other Imperial citizens for no apparent reason or out of pure selfishness is considered bad in the Imperium.

Adeptus-B said:

Most things in the gaming diaspora — RPGs, video games, et al — are by default inclusive to males and frequently exclusive against females. So, no one complains because there is literally nothing to complain about. Outside of complaining of being denied that final percentage of non-male exclusivity like an overeater denied their fifth helping of desert that night.

if a girl wanted to play a female space marine, I'd let her. Why? Who cares, it's what she wants and has no mechanical impact and a negligible affect on the fluff.

Trodamus said:

By your statement it doesn't matter. When the prime argument is "because I'm a girl", why make a distinction, why not just play to canon?

Because it would matter if I said no? Honestly, I don't understand your response. It kind of says, "It doesn't matter, so you should force the cannon down her throat." This isn't a PC RPG and I've never really heard a reason for the lack of female marines that was so compelling that I'd risk alienating a player just to adhere to cannon.

That would be like playing a paladin who is also Chaotic Neutral, or a lawful good Barbarian; sure it's do-able but it,s not the book rule. Like making a cross-check in a football game.

Trodamus said:

Eh. Well its more cannon specifically goes to say that all space marines are male, in the same way that all sororitas are male. The problem like I said earlier is that when it comes down to it, one is simply a class/play-style choice while the other is flat out every character in the game is male. BoM web-supplement I believe opened it up so that there is DW level Sororitas for female characters.

If you want to make female space marines by all means go for it, but yeah, you will catch flak from people because they specifically don't exist. Its not a grey area, its simply all space marines are male. Always. Always have been. On the flip side though, due to what space marines go through they might as well effectively be genderless. They exemplify stereotypically "masculine" virtues, but they are generally fairly removed from humanity.

Except salamanders.

Who are apparently everyone's bro's.

in reply too 8 spider: ty for pointing that out this also replys too adeptus b and the resulting conversion there

1stly i as a female gamer would say i appreciate adeptus b's comments as a whole 1stly he says a true point most games are defacto male which is why i was saying 40k deserves a pat on back for haveing more mixed gender and defacto male and female charcters

but 2ndly as 8 spider points out the new sororita book actually gves you rules for useing battle sisters in death watch games so that answers a lot of the debate any girl gamer wanting too play a female space maine can just play a sororita

which ever since there conception have been female marines but with faith powers rather than genetic augments

also many people do over look where as sororita are like paladin nun warrriors of the emperor marines are monk super solider warriors of the emperor

in fact just too draw the parrels closed "battle brother - battle sister"

from france

hum i think the male/ female player/character is just a so old debate that it will never end.

Remenber the first time when lary elmore and compagny draw the picture that will for generations look like ther fist tate of nudity (cultural generation) ? no? look at it it was every teenager fantasy.

on the down side their armor where never magical on the picture but for me much latter in my life when i look at it again their armor where magical. hey lets be honest a chain mail bra that cover the whole body and chaimail string that protect the leg. plus it is isolate against the cold or heat. they were confortable because the touch the skin without hurting it and ther weren't cumbersome and light.

if you the picture that i described you have won but there is no pice.

if that is not magical? what it is? it was also utterly macho and the few girl who play at look at it never appreciate them unless well..... it was a male game for male at this time.

thank with time rpg change a bunch of anne ric lover create V and whe have strong female character who if under a swat armor will be fully covered with a heavy and cumbersome armor or if just weraing underwear weren't protected as all.

and now we have dark heresy that not alway successful at least have a more equal apporche to gender role in the universe and so the game.

the funny thing is that male priesthood before blood of the martyr didn't have "faith power" hey you could have religious psycker with psy power but no faith power and priest with some psy power but no faith power.

and now? because some players feel it unfair males ministorum character can have faith power. so it is sometimes possible to adapte the game.

sometimes not always it has been very clear since the begining of the unirverse of 40k that the emperor had created 20 sons who will lead their sons in turn.

there is no escapes for that. where for me on should not be so dogmatic is that non astartes can play whith deathwacht characater i f they have the same equivalent level.

even the greynight do sometime fight alongside other forces. (look at the novel greynight)

sister you should look at your message in your profil have you finish the book?

Eh?

Ever since Faith Powers have been introduced male characters have been able to use them in DH - look at the Black Priest alternate rank to Clerics; they open up Pure Faith. For the table top Sororitas are the only army that is able to use faith powers, yes, but they are the only standing ecclesiarchy army, so its not like there's a whole lot else you could represent. Faith Powers have nothing to do with them being female and everything to do with the fluff, and the fluff never has stated you must be exclusively female to manifest them.

Including faith powers to male characters has had nothing to do with "male characters feeling left out" or any sort of such nonsense.

Rakiel said:

And to add to that, Faoth owers didnt even exist prior to Inquisitor's Handbook, so they were introduced for male and female characters at the same time.