So just figuring out that the Hardcover books are actually the same as the Softcovers I wonder, is the Creature Compendium a Hardcover version of the Creature Vault without the tokens/cards/whatnot?

No, the Creature Guide/Vault has new creatures, and introduces Creature Action cards, Creature Cards, and Creature Group Sheets.

As a GM, for my money, the Creature Vault and Creature Guide are #2 and #3 purchase priorities after Core Set (#1).

Is the Creature Vault usable with just the core set or does one need the creature guide? Not asking if it contains descriptions of creatures, but new rules that have not been published in any of the other boxes/books?

They creature guide sums up a few rules options that were introduced in the GM Guide (Toolkit) from last year, but really does not intrduce anything new. The Creature guide also has lists and graphs that summarize every creature action and card that I think would physicially be in the creature vault. You could easily get by with the Warhammer lite concept and make yourself a monster cheat sheet with all the actions etc just by puilling the information that is in the monster guide.

The coolest thing about the monster guide is all the back story and descriptions from all the creatures. It helps flush out your world. Also, I really appreciate the adventure "Hooks" segemnt of each monster description. I think it is a clever idea.

There are a few terms and traits found on the cards in the CV that are explained only in the CG. Plus, descriptions and some detail on the new monsters. It isn't a game breaker if you don't pick up the CG, but it is worthwhile to pick it up.

simpatikool said:

Ehhm, no, you can't. As a review (rpggeek.com/thread/603535/wfrp-3-creature-guide-a-good-reason-to-use-all-t) of the Creature Guide put it:

"So… WFRP 3 without the cards….?

No. I don’t think so.

This is (so far) the only one of the hardback books I’ve bought. I have to say that the sections that summarise information you would otherwise find on the cards or physical components are terrible. They are poorly laid out, difficult to browse through and incomplete compared to the cards. For me, this isn’t a big deal – and it might well nudge people in the direction of buying the vaults. But for those who are still heavily resistant to that side of this edition… this book isn’t going to be a great help! Which is a shame. I have to admit that to me it feels as if they rushed through these sections in order to get the books out soon, in response to customer demand… without thinking through the utility of these reference tables."

Another user (same thread) concurs that this also holds true for the Player's Guide. Also, as is pointed out in this thread (and on the board I just linked to) there's also reverse product dependence of the Vault on the Guide.

I'm quite miffed about that. I ordered all three pricey hardcovers and a dice set, and all I'm to receive is a semi-functional RPG.

PS. Same issue (and further problems with the Creature Guide) are highlighted in this review (www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15133.phtml ):

"The Creature Guide and Creature Vault; Complementary or symbiotic?

While I have yet to own the Vault, it is becoming exceedingly clear to me that these two were designed for symbiosis, as opposed to the case of the Player and Gamemasters line, where the vault is recommended but optional. I can see myself using the guide to prepare for encounters, finding creatures and actions I plan on using, then assembling them in advance. That is really the only way to do it, in my opinion. You could get along without the guide, but you are missing out as you would be if only the Guide was only [?? garbled sentence in original - I guess it's meant to say "You could get along with just owning the Vault, but then you are missing out as much as you would be if the Guide was the only thing you owned"]. Certainly to a lesser extent, but the loss is still there. (...)

This book has all of the hallmarks of a first generation product; wonderful ideas marred by terrible execution. With that in mind, I feel like this is an incomplete review as I have yet to own the Creature Vault. When I do, I will write out a review. My problem is not with the two products being dependent upon each other, but with the way they are marketed. In no way does Fantasy Flight make it clear that both are needed to function properly. These are in a different function than the GM and Players line, chiefly because of the new content and material for a GM. Because of this, Fantasy Flight really should have released these in a different fashion. As it stands now, it is a misleading product at best, and outright deceptive at worst."

Bah, it should be fairly easy to play without the cards from every thing I can tell. Oooo, to save space FFG didn't repeat the card descriptive/fluff text in the PG/CG for the actions. It's nice to have, but that's hardly needed to use the actions. You just need to write a bunch of stuff down, like every other RPG.

I've looked at both the CG and PG, and I fail to see how they are 'terrible' or anything. Of course, WFRP3 is meant to use the cards and tokens. IMO you *should* use them. Trying to not use them will, of course, be more of a challenge. Regardless of anything else, the various Guides are a BONUS for folks who want to use fewer tokens. They should be darn glad they have what they have, IMO. FFG heard their complaints and was kind enough to spend the time, effort, and money to assist the small minority that wanted to use fewer components to play a game designed specifically to use components.

ABOUT GUIDES :

Player and GM's Guides allows classical RPGers to play 3rd edition without tokens. There are no real use, except collection, for regular WFRP3 players.

Creature's Guide enhance the 3rd edition bestiary : it fits both no-token RPGers and WFRP3 regular players.

ABOUT VAULTS :

Creature Vault enhance the 3rd edition gameplay introducing new beasts cards, actions cards and racial cards for WFRP3 regular players. No use for no-token rpgers.

Player's and GM's Vault are useless for both : regular players have their corebox, others don't mind chits. Moreover, GM vault contains so few dices compared to corebox.

CONCLUSION : read that post again and think about what you need if you play in english.

Later, french game will only propose guides and vault, and no corebox, that's lame.