This has pretty much become my tag line for when I'm playing with my RT group.

I have also been shown the "light"....Our GM created some ancient tech organization called the Golden Pattern. This group is made up of people that have been upgraded to no longer contain any "flesh bits".......seeing it as too awesome to pass up my tech priest took the chance and "upgraded".

I now have control over things at almost an sub atomic lvl....I can create nanites which is pretty handy....also as I lvl up I will be able to control the inherient flaw in all Imperial made tech....the machine spirit. Since most tech patternes come from Mars, and we all know that the void dragon is there, the machine spirit is a flaw that can be controlled by the void dragon should he break free. Its like on off switch that can just shut Machines down....

So if that isn't a hint that we may one day be running into necrons i don't know what is..

Anyway just wanted to share and see what people think...i'll try and keep this updated as I learn more

and yes the GM and I have had to work out my own rank tree from my lvling up

Very interesting, though it smacks very strongly of Anima Mori.

To my knowledge only the Cult of the Micro-Omnisiah can create nanotech in the Imperium. They operated solely on the moon of Glavia. They had a large nanite factory implanted in their chest and to use them they required a Nano-Genus Mechandrite. Even then they needed several minutes to calibrate the nanites if the were used for anything other than a deconstruction swarm. The factory was also very sensitive. A blow to the chest could cause some severe damage, a large caliber round or bolt shell would ruin it.

And it seems fairly strange that a Tech-Priest would turn his back on well accepted doctrine and turn from treating the Machine Spirit as a noble intelegence inherent in all technology, to a flaw that must be expunged. It seems like a pretty radical shift to just happen overnight.

Psyker11 said:

I think that they were 'just' the premier organization in the Mechanicus that were building nanotech, quite a few other technologies relatively common to the AdMech sound an awful lot like it. The Autosanguine talent is pretty much stated to be nanotech, and the Sacred Unguents seems like it as well.

As for your tech priest, he's certainly become a heretek, or he will be once he's found out.

Psyker11 said:

I think that you hit the nail on the head with this one. Maybe this cult reprogrammed him when he underwent conversion.

Vandroiy said:

I can see where you are coming from, nanotech is fairly common to the Adeptus Mechanicus. But while a certain pattern of device may be used across the Imperium, normally it can only be created at a single forge world. So, if the Cult of the Micro-Omnisiah had they only known method of creating nano-forges, the Imperium at large could still make use of nanotech, given the amount of time they have had to spread their members and the demand that would be placed on their abilities.

I liken them to Astropaths, A highly valuable and often necessary commodity that can only be produced at one location, yet is still common across the Imperium. And unlike Astropaths, you would always have more on hand, as the forges can just keep churning them out.

Yeah. The whole "machine spirit bad" is something of a sticking point, but so is the fact that you're aware of the Void Dragon being on Mars.

The only people who have any idea about that are the Emperor, possibly some of the Custodes, and maybe the Fabricator-General and a handful of his top-level aides.
Assuming some of the Lectitio followers got off Mars during the Heresy (and, for that matter, a specific group of Lectitio followers), it is just about possible that the knowledge also appears in the earliest archives of the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition, but that is far from certain (and the odds are if it does appear in those archives, no-one remembers/has any idea it is there).

As a side-note: when I first read the title of this thread, my immediate thought was

Psyker11 said:

The whole produced at only one forge world in the entire imperium has always bugged me.

1. There is no reason for it.

2. Not only does it make no sense it is actively a bad thing for a whole laundry list of reasons.

3. Given the scale of production needed to supply the whole of the imperium it is probably not possible at all.

It makes for grimdark fluff but really poor everything else.

I've always figured that the whole "Only produced on one world across the whole empire" thing was just way to further control the spread of tech, and maintain their death grip on the best products.

Also I think that the ladies of the Imperium are probably churning out potential astropaths much faster than a single forge world would be producing almost anything.

Vandroiy said:

As to keeping a death grip on it... I am not sure about that as the forge worlds are AdMech domain so it would still be under their control.

Yah as to how astropaths and sanctioning works I don't like that either.. The only thing I can guess is that the Emperor is actually situated on a parade ground and they are marching armies of psykers 100+ ranks deep past him at double time 24hrs a day. Though I seem to remember some fluff from somewhere where it was described as groups of 50 at a time.

Vandroiy said:

While the birth rate of psykers is rising, it is still well below 1%. The black ships collect the psyker-tithe from a world once every hundred years. Most of these psykers are only good for sacrifice, so lets say a few from each boatload have the potential to be an astropath. Even then it takes years of training to prepare them for the soul-binding ritual, and even then not all of them survive. So lets say that on average 1000 of them are created each day.

A single large forge world, running nonstop, should at least be able to match this, don't you think?

Psyker11 said:

Hmm so each sector can receive 1 new replacement astropath per 10days or 36.5 per year.. lets say an astropath lasts 50 years of service (some higher some lower/killed etc) soo.. 50 * 36.5 = 1825 which is the max sustainable number of astropaths a sector can have. This is way low. Each ship has at a minimum 1 astropath and the vast majority will have a choir (however many that is). the calixus sector alone has thousands of merchart/trade type vessels. In addition to all the other organizations that have ships. Saying that there are probably 40k+ astropaths in any given sector seems like a lot but in reality they are a extremly rare and streched thin resource even at that number.

Also that is just astropaths who are only a subgroup of sanctioned psykers. So the emperor is VERY VERY busy.

llsoth said:

Sanctionites are rigorously tested by the Scholastica Psykana on their world or in their local sector, Astropaths are raised by the Adepta Astra Telepathica and Soul-Bound, a hundred at a time, deep within the Emperor's Palace itself. Neither comes into direct contact or even view of the Emperor at any time.

llsoth said:

Actually, according to the only written statistic on this I have seen, found in the old Rogue Trader rulebook, Astropaths make up over 90% of all Imperial sanctioned psykers.

Errant said:

Please provide a source for that.

Psyker11 said:

I stand corrected.

Psyker11 said:

I stand corrected.

edit: BLAHH!! double post sorry

Huh this nano cult is something I've never heard of, but it makes sense that it was on glavia where all the pilots seem to have Vehicle interface circuits. Where did you get this information? I'm always looking for more ad.mech fluff to absord, and possibly some easy 'how to guide' to give to my group's tech priest.

As for the only on one forge world thing I always assumed that's where the majority of production was done with other forge worlds not yet having gone through the proper rituals and paperwork to prove themselves 'holy' enough to institute mass production. An example is the vanquisher Leman russ and a few baneblade variants. Only one or two forge worlds could crank them out in any number, and when they fell the number of remaining items begins to as other worlds simply lack the know how/ credentials to meet the same level of production.

It's also apparent that the sharing of knowledge is not something high ranking magos do without a very good (to them) reason. Combined with their potential insanity and sociopathic flaws it's conceivable that two forge worlds just don't cooperate despite them both working on the same research.

George Labour said:

I found it on the Lexicanum web site, but it is originally from the Inquisitor game. I heartily recommend the Lexicanum to anybody wishing to learn more about the Warhammer universe.

Psyker11 said:

It's generally a good source of information, and typically has good citations for what is up there. However, there are/were several books which the moderators decided are not cannon and therefore you cannot find information from them on the site. Most notably Xenology last I checked.

EDIT: Scratch that, Xenology is mentioned on the site now...

-=Brother Praetus=-

Errant said:

Hmm, I always got the impression that the ritual took place (or at least the final part of it involved being) in front of the God-Emperor. There isn't really much to back that up though. The best I can find is in the transubstanial initiate entry where it says that others have "never set foot upon Holy Terra, nor have they stood in the light of The Golden Throne." While that last part could be metephorical, I interpret it as being litteral, in that they've actually been close to The Golden Throne at some point, and hence close to the God-Emperor. It could be that they just walk in front of Him, but even that would be kind of time consuming... or would it?

If they last around 50 years on average (Seems low with all the life extending processes out there, but likely offset by burnout and untimely deaths), then you need roughly 800/year to keep up the numbers. Now, I don't know the survival rate of the 100 that pass before the emperor, but lets assume 25% for the moment. That means 32 groups a year per sector. I have no idea how many sectors there are though. If we're talking around 10 sectors then it seems very doable to have the entire ritual take place in front of Him as long as it doesn't take too long. If we're talking about hundreds of sectors then I figure it would still be very doable to have them do the ritual and then move to see Him for the last couple minutes of the ritual. Could easily get in a dozen groups a day in an hour or so, which is enough to provide for something like 132 sectors. Seems very doable to me.

Karoline said:

Under Rite of Sanctioning it specifies being brought before the emperor.

Well, there you have it.

llsoth said:

Given that something like one third of Terra is part of his palace it would probably safe to say that the throne room is probably mind bogglingly huge in size.

As for the numbers of astropaths, the quote about the Imperium is "An Empire Of A Million Worlds." assuming that that is the actual number of populated worlds controlled by the Imperium then it's safe to say that the population is in the Quadrillions at bare minimum. One percent of 1 Quadrillion is 10,000,000,000,000,000 Psykers. If only One percent of them is capable of becoming anything other than a sacrifice that is still. 100,000,000,000,000 reasonably potent psykers. 90% of them are astropaths that is 90,000,000,000,000 across the entire empire. So yeah I'm reasonably sure that a single forge world is producing less than than that in a year.

(I apologize If my math is off at any point.)

Vandroiy said:

Millage may vary, while all psykers go to terra and sanctioning means being brought before a single individual, as I said before it is not something I agree with. I also see it as a seperate (but related issue in terms of scale) issue.

As to Mars even if you could have production on a scale large enough to supply the whole imperium from one world.. it would be logistical suicide. Not to mention the laundry list of other reasons it is a bad idea. While the idea of that is "grimdark" it is so moronic that it boggles the mind, but then again it is very cannon for the imperium to do a whole host of things to hamstring itself, why should this be any different.

UPDATE

First off my PC does not know that the void dragon exists....I myself know that meta from playing a necron table top army..... My PC(Loken) is learning a little about the necrons...right now he only knows the strange symbol and that there are these robotic "men" that will one day flood into the Empire of man.

Second) At 1st Loken was very much against this tech heresy....He destroyed every piece of tech that he found making his way to the core....Finailly the team was confronted by the "ruler" of this place.1st action Loken opened fire......got off one shot....then suddenly my entire system goes into lock down. I can see and hear but not move. This sends my PC in shock and horror. Over the next couple days(2 hrs in role playing it out) I argue the ideals of the machine and mankind with this entity. Eventually I am turned over to its idea and desire a way to save my brothers from this coming storm.

I get imparted with some pretty cool STC pattern stuff ......still waiting to see what else I can do....

.....MORE UPDATES TO COME.....

Vandroiy said:

While not in those exact terms, I'm pretty sure that's a good description of it - the passageway leading to the Throne Room is miles long, adorned with the banners of the greatest heroes the Imperium has ever known, and so vast in every dimension that it has its own weather patterns, with a cloud layer hanging beneath the vaulted ceiling. At the far end, two Emperor-class Imperator Titans guard a door that dwarfs even them in sheer magnitude, which leads into the Throne Room itself.

The Throne Room is apparently even bigger still, to accomodate the colossal proportions of the Golden Throne.

As for the matter of Soul-Binding - it's physically and metaphysically impossible to perform it without the Emperor, given that the Soul Binding literally imparts the would-be Astropath with a tiny fragment of the Emperor's strength. It's not poorly-planned logistics, but fundamental necessity that determines why would-be Astropaths must all be dragged kicking and screaming to Terra, alongside the even vaster number of sacrifices needed to fuel the Golden Throne. There simply is no other way to create them, particularly not given the vast numbers required (you could try and use Sanctioned Psykers for Astropathic purposes instead, sure, but there's no way you'd get enough of them).

It stands to reason from that, then, that the much rarer Sanctioned Psykers (that is, any Psyker powerful and stable enough to be useful to the Imperium without requiring the Soul Binding) are also taken to, and trained on, Terra - the Blackships are already going there (because the vast majority of the cargo are psykers headed to be Astropaths, part of the Choir of the Astronomicon, or sacrifices to the Emperor, all of which need to go to Terra), and its probably safer to test a psyker's abilities when planetside as opposed to in a starship in the Warp.