So, I know an astropath can not see an untouchable due to how their "See without Eyes" works, but I was wondering...

Can an astropath see an Untouchable's picture, recording on camera or reflection in a mirror?

Also does the Untouchable's radius mess up the astropath's vision?

Can an astropath see an Untouchable's picture, recording on camera or reflection in a mirror?

I would say they could see a picture and a recording, but not a live reflection.

Also does the Untouchable's radius mess up the astropath's vision?

I would lean toward yes, but I have not ran across this situation in any game yet. I might consider the untouchable radius to be more of a shadow or fog effect to the astropath.

Hmm, but the shadow/fog effect would make it very easy to locate an untouchable. Maybe not down to inches, but they would certainly stick out when a warp fog suddenly rolls past you.

I do agree that you'd likely be able to see a picture. It doesn't capture your soul (I swear) or anything. As for mirror... that's a tough one. That seems like it would be way too easy of a way for an astropath to overcome the untouchable's 'invisibility'. I do have to agree again though, don't think it would work. Mirror would seem blank as well.

Since an Astropath "sees" with the mind, it might be possible that they can't grasp any visual image of an Untouchable - live or recorded.

That's true, but while I could see the mirror reflecting the spirit as well as the normal image (and thus not being able to be seen), a picture seems like it wouldn't be able to capture or display that properly, and so would only see the image of the person. Then again, that just means all an astropath has to do to get past an untouchable's 'invisibility' is to walk around with a video camera that has a video display or something similar. Maybe the untouchable quality does transmit itself to all media somehow.

Karoline said:

That would imply a failure of the Astropath's mind to accept the image, sothething that may or may not be the goal. We do know that their mind doesn't reject the entire idea of the Untouchable - they can still feel his touch, hear his voice/footsteps/breathing, and smell his breath/flatulence.

No, it would imply that the disconnect from the immaterium that is inherent in the untouchable is also inherent in any picture or reflection of the untouchable as well. If it was a mental thing... well, that'd be silly because the astropath could only not see the picture of the untouchable so long as she knew it was a picture of an untouchable.

As I said, it is fairly easy to believe that it happens with mirrors. Harder with pictures and such, but otherwise it seems like it'd be way too easy for an astropath to grab a 'video camera' and look on the little display screen and never have to worry about untouchables being invisible to them again.

One wonders about the paranoia of an astropath so afraid of not being able to see an untouchable that he spends his entire life looking through the viewport of a pictcaster

Use it all the time? No. Carry one around so that if you know an untouchable is in the area you can see it? Yes.

I treat it as the Astropath sees the material world's reflection in the Warp almost; where everything is almost the same but not quite. As a result, the astropath wouldn't be able to see the Untouchable at all; even in pictures and whatnot. Because the Astropath isn't looking at the picture - he's looking at the picture's reflection in the warp. And in that reflection, the Untouchable has made no impression. Now, that's pretty freaky. I can only imagine what it would be like for an Eldar Farseer who can divine the future but can't percieve the Untouchable amidst the myriad strands of fate...things happening for no reason at all, unable to plan around the Untouchable because as far as the Farseer is concerned there's nothing there!

It seems to depend on how you view a Astros "sight" Is it just a diferent way of seeing like through a telescope (ie the warp) or is it as cannonball said they see the warps reflection. I like the second idea. The Astro is basicly looking at a picture already taken by the warp, they would see nothing photos reflections etc of the untouchable. You could also be really evil and vary what the Astro sees since the warp is unpredictable and malevolent.

good torment blind blind man things

Wouldn't the Astropath "feel" their power weaken in the presence of an untouchable? Passing one in the streets or a crowded ship's corridor would make them feel ill, I would think.

Nojo509 said:

At very close range or (especially) touch, yes.