Q:Does Leap affect a figure with Ghost?
A:No, as a Leap attack is performed when the figure is
adjacent, either on the ground or in the air.

Q: When making a Leap attack, is the leaping figure
subject to Guard attacks produced by abilities such as
Alertness, and Aura? If the figure is damaged by any of
those effects, may it apply its Berserk ability to its attack
roll (assuming it has Berserk)?
A: Yes on most counts. Leaping figures are immune to
Aura, but otherwise subject to all the above noted effects.
It may apply its Berserk ability if it takes damage during
its leap. Note that if the figure is slain by any of these
effects, then it may not make an attack roll at all. Guard
may only be activated before or after a Leap attack is
performed, never during.

1) These 2 seem to contradict one another. You are adjacent when leaping and attacking mid air but somehow immune to aura (damage adjacent figures), and immune to guard.

2) The second one is contradicting itself. YES ON MOST ACCOUNTS. Yet i read you are immune to guard and aura. So what is left alertness? So 1 on 3 is yes on most accounts? Anyway how can alertness work when aura fails to work and guard also?

AURA

Each time an enemy figure moves into a space adjacent to a figure with the Aura ability, it immediately suffers 1 wound that cannot be reduced by armor. The Aura ability inflicts no damage when the figure that possesses the ability moves adjacent to an enemy figure.

ALERTNESS

When an enemy figure movess into a space adjacent to you, you may spend 2 fatigue to immediately make 1 attack against that figure. You may do this once each time an enemy figure moves into an adjacent space.

If aura doesn't work then alertness should not work. If any of these 3 works then the other should work also. And since ghost still works it means you are adjacent therefore you take damage from aura.

I don't care if i have to home rule it (we will probably talk about it and do it). But it's not a matter of anything else but common sense. You just can't decide what to work and what not when the situation are exactly the same for both even if you are the **** inventor of the game. It all boils down to if you are adjacent or not when leaping. AT BEST you can rule that guard doesn't work (for some weird reason) probably because he was TOO fast? But if alertness works then guard works also no matter what you say as aura does also.

I have no problems with these rules. There's a lot to remember but the the rules are clear enough.

You shouldn't always think of rules thematically. Sometimes they have to put the mechanics of the board game first.

Leap has caused some confusion but I think FFG has hammered it out pretty well.

Why does it seem so broken to you that when a figure is leaping it is immune to aura but a Hero can still take a swing at the leaping creature?
Aura and alertness are two different abilities so sure they can have different traits.

But you did nail it. If you don't like it house rule it.

I can make a swing with alertness okay. But i can't make a swing with guard? whatever way you think of it it's not possible to work it. Either it is or it is not you just can't say this is adjacent for some reasons but not adjacent for the same reasons.

Drglord said:

Sure you can. Descent is a tactical board game not a reality engine.

Granted, I too think it's strange that it's immune to some guard attacks but not others. I doubt that's what they intended. But as far as using it at a table, there's no problems: just do what the rules/FAQ/errata say to do. If it bugs your group enough, house rule it or hope for a FAQ update.

I would be okay with anything they would rule but the minute you rule it is adjacent or that it is prone to alertness then automatically it is also subjectable to aura and guard. Think of the below if there had been only the ghost question then NO ONE would ever had questioned about alertness or aura since automatically he would be considered prone to counterattacks as he is adjacent the moment he is "ABOVE" you. I would definetely go the way that someone screwed up on that answer and it was definetely not intended that way.

Drglord said:

I think it is pretty simple...

The Leaping figure does not enter any of the spaces it leaps 'over'. Therefore it is not subject to Aura. It is also not subject to Alertness or any guard attacks mid-leap. You guys aren't reading it carefully. Guard and Alertness have been lumped together earlier ("...guard attacks produced by abilities such as Alertness...") and can only be activated before or after the leap, not mid-leap. Exactly the same as Aura actually.

However, the Ghost ruling seems like a contradiction. It is. The Leaping figure never enters an adjacent space (unless it takes off or lands there, both times it is vulnerable to everything.
But Bloodapes do melee attacks. By definition they can only attack when adjacent. Ghost and melee don't mix, unless Reach is involved. For the purposes of the argument you might consider them to be adjacent 'above' the hero, but not in any adjacent space.
It isn't perfect, but it does work.

For those who wonder about the necessity of the complicated looking efforts on the FAQ update thread, the second question above is a great example of why we want to control and refine both question and answers. It is a mess, both Q and A.

Corbon said:

But according to the second FAQ question, Alertness IS allowed mid-Leap. As Drg points out, the answer says "yes on most counts" and then proceeds to explicitly forbid aura and guard (two of the three abilities mentioned.) If Alertness isn't allowed then NONE of the example abilities are allowed, so where does "yes on most counts" come from? "Yes on most counts, but not any of the ones you actually mentioned" (?) Are there any other forbidden examples we should be aware of, or were these three it?

It isn't news to me that the FAQ is a mess linguistically, and I fully agree with your efforts to clarify things in the FAQ update subforum, but I think Drg does have a valid point here, at least concerning the second FAQ question he quoted. I personally don't see a conflict between the first and second; ghost works, aura doesn't. Okay. But the answer to #2 is getting murkier by the second.

Sometimes I wish Descent WERE a thematic game, at least then I could rest assured that ruling on my gut instinct would produce reliably accurate results.

Steve-O said:

As the bolded part indicates, I was reading it differently.

An alternative (actually probably more accurate now that I think about it a bit more) reading (that you guys were using) is that Guard is not the same as 'guard attacks produced by abilities such as alertness'.
In this case, Alertness is allowed, Aura is not and Guard is not.

In this case it is logical that Guard cannot be used mid-leap.
Remember:
" A: Guard orders can interrupt the overlord at any time. However, each action should be resolved in its entirety once it’s been begun . (For example, although you can interrupt the overlord if he declares an attack, if you choose not to the attack is resolved in its entirety before you have another chance to use your Guard order.
The "Leap Attack" action begins in the starting space and ends in the ending space, including both movement and attack in the same action. So the guard can interrupt before the leap begins, or after the leap ends, but not mid-leap.

Aura appears to use the logic that the Leaping figure never enters the adjacent space. Apparently the Aura does not extend upward...
By that logic, Alertness also should not be allowed.
However, There is clearly a conflict of logic in the leaping melee monsters making a melee attack when melee attacks are only allowed vs adjacent spaces.
It seems they have 'resolved' this conflict by deciding that the leaping monster is adjacent without being in a space - which, is pretty much the case. Thus they allow it to make a melee attack, and Ghost will 'work' against it, but no Aura. It appears they have made an exception to this for Alertness (which normally triggers on adjacent space ) probably because the primary purpose of Alertness is to make an attack at melee range and leap is implicitly allowing attacks at melee range. But they didn't make the same exception for Guard (probably because it is much more common and much more complicated as a Guard could arguably target anywhere along the leap path even though the leaping figure never entered any spaces).
Arguably an Alert hero could get two attacks at a leaping figure if it was truly triggered by space entry (one before the attack, one after) but I'd be rather surprised if they allowed that.

Thus still doesn't satisfy the 'yes on most counts' part. We have two yes's (Alertness and Beserk) and two no's (Guard and Aura).

Possibly they simply got Aura the wrong way around. That makes it 3-1, however it still leaves the anomally that they made an exception to the 'complete action before interrupt' rule for Alertness and not the same exception for Guard (as explained, I can see why they would except one and not the other).

Or they simply got Alertness wrong (and the yes in most cases).
The 'balance factor' of allowing melee range attacks both ways is vastly outweighed in our opinion by the inconsistancy factor of interrupting mid-event and not entering any spaces.
IMO it would be a much better answer if it was 'no in all cases. No Aura or Alertness (no space), no Guard (mid-action) and therefore no damaging effects to trigger Beserk.