Hi all, I just bought the game and I'm studying the rulebook before starting to play, but even not having played AH yet I found many ambiguities in the rules. At some of them I tried to give answer by logic and experience (I'm a BG/RPG player since 25years or so), for many others I found clues in this forum.

Sincerly I'm at a dead end with this question: I may spend clue tokens to get extra dice ONLY for "basic" skill checks (Fight, Lore, Luck, Sneak, Speed and Will) or also for the other four (Evade, Horror, Combat and Spell) special skill checks?

I'm a bit confused because on one side "special" depends on basic skills and the rulebook says that any bonus to a given skill applies also to the special skill check derived from that skill, but on the other side in the paragraph "Spending clue tokens on skill checks" there's no reference to special skill checks and also the given example is only about a basic skill (Lore). Personally I read the "any" in the sentence "A player may spend clue tokens, one at a time, after ANY skill check (failed or not)" as refered to "failed or not" and not intended as "any kind of skill check".

Having no actual game experience of AH leaves me only the logic to understand this, but I think game balance and difficulty change a lot if it's allowed or not to use tokens to have 2nd opportunities in checks which usually involve directly the fate of the investigator!

Also on this depends if you can or cannot do checks with big negative modifiers that can drop your number of dice to 0 or below - like a combat check against an Old One or other powerful monster (which can be right in the Mythos "logic" but not so fun to some "casual" players).

I ask if there's an official clarification on this or otherwise I prefer to listen and bow to the opinion of experienced AH players who surely know better then me (the noob!) which is the best method, also to keep the game working fine, not too easy and not even impossible to beat.

Thank you in advance for your answers and dream well in your Houses in R'lyeh!

You can spend clues on any kind of skill check. Skill checks include any of your main skills, as well as the "special" skill checks Evade, Horror, Spell, and Combat (there may be another one I'm forgetting?). Keep in mind, however, that Fight bonuses count towards Combat checks, too, but it's a one-way street and Combat bonuses don't count towards Fight checks. Same goes for Will/Horror, Sneak/Evade, and Lore/Spell checks.

I was confused by this, too, and played a good chunk of games where I only counted certain checks as augmenting ONLY those checks, and not their subset, too.

Also, not sure if this was your question, but if you spend a clue token, you always get at least one extra die to roll. So if you have a +1 modifier, and the check says -3, you automatically fail unless you spend clues, but you can spend a single clue token to get 1 die!

Combat checks are still Fight checks. The reason they're given a different title is specifically because there are some items or abilities that apply only to Combat checks (Marksman skill, and of course, weapons). You can't use a handgun to help you pry back the lid of a stone chest, or help Ma drag a piano up the stairs, or to hold onto an item that a Miskatonic student is trying to steal from you (although, hilariously, for all of these you can use your "Wrestle" skill! Full Nelson that piano up the stairs! Suplex that college student!)

Thank you very much for your quick answer!

I think the game it would have become far more difficult (if not impossible) using tokens only on basic skill checks expecially because otherwise you can completely lose the possibility to have a chance on heavily modified checks...

Anyway I've noted browsing the forum that AH rules often leave space for some misunderstanding... I think I'll ask help again quite soon!

Thank you again!

Tibs said:

But I think it can help you to convince that student to loose his grip on your object! ;-)

Apart from jokes thank you for the answer!

Byga said:

Yeah, but then that would be a Will check, to bluff. A combat check implies that you're actually using the gun on him .

Of course then in both cases you'd need to make a Speed, Sneak, and Luck check to escape the police.

Just to be clear, you can spend a clue token to roll a die even when you would normally not be able to perform the skill check, correct? (For example, you must make a lore check at a -2 penalty, and your lore is currently set to 1.)

That's how I read the rules, but I wanted to make sure. I assume the in-game explanation is that your knowledge of the mythos in this instance possibly combined with an extraordinary amount of luck allows you to perform an extraordinary feat.

9-Jack-9 said:

Yes, you're right. Spending a clue token grants you *always* a die to roll

And what's even better, when you reroll a skill check, you may roll all dice added by clue tokens! So if your Lore was 2, and you tried to pass a Lore (-1) check, you roll one die normally, then if you spent two clue tokens and decided to reroll the entire check, you roll three dice in all.

Noted, many thanks.

As a sidenote here, I'd like to mention a house rule that I just thought of but haven't tried yet: when spending clue tokens to gain bonus dice on skill rolls, a roll of 4-6 should count as a success on any bonus dice. If the investigator is Blessed , a roll of 3-6 should count as a success. My reasoning is this: clue tokens become harder to come by as the game progresses since gates opening at locations cause all clue tokens present at the location to be discarded. Each Mythos phase there's a chance of a clue token being placed, but not all Mythos cards cause clues to appear, and there'a always the chance that an open gate will be at the location, and thus no clue tokens get placed. Players are only going to spend clue tokens on skill checks in desperate situations, so they should be given a better chance of success than normal when spending those clue tokens.

I will not play with that house rule, partly because there are ways to re-roll dice, and then, which dice are "normal" and which are "bonus"? It's too complicated, and it is certainly not a pitfall in the game for the investigators to learn how to appropriately budget clues.

But if you do use that rule, you should take note that Joe Diamond has an unexplained bonus point of Focus, probably because the designers assumed that his ability was sub-par since any clue spent to a check is not spent towards sealing. Well, without your house rule, his ability is still great. So if you're going to play that way, you should at least lower his focus to 2.

One other quick question on clue tokens. Do you guys use them to re-roll upkeep checks? Like for keeping a blessing?

Dr. Jay said:

First - a matter of semantics. Don't think of it as a re-roll. Think of it as buying another die by spending a clue token. This distinction will be helpful later on.

Unfortunately you can't buy a die in the described instance even if you wanted to. There are a few rolls in the game that are NOT checks and therefore not available for purchase.

Examples being blessings, curses, and retainers. There may be others but none come to mind at the moment.

If a skill isn't mentioned (e.g Fight, Speed, Will, etc) it's NOT a check and therefore you can't spend a clue to roll an additional die.

Nameless1 said:

There are a few encounters which tell you to roll X amount of dice and if you don't roll any successes then something happens, but if you do, something else happens. Those aren't checks either, just a roll of the dice, and thus, clue tokens can't be spent on those rolls. The most obvious one I can think of is Norman Withers' personal story pass effect . But there are other, less obvious, examples in the game. Basically, if it doesn't say check, then you can't spend clue tokens to buy dice.

Nameless1 said:

Thanks for the clarification. I think I knew that on some level, but got in the habit of just rerolling die instead of adding them in with clue tokens. Then it just sort of bled over into all rolls.

Nameless1 said:

Every time my GF get a "roll dice equal to your current san/sta and lose 1 san/sta per failure" card she ALWAYS asks if she can spend clue tokens or use Mandy's ability to re-roll. I'm thinking I should start using electroshock therapy to make her understand.

Or maybe that's a bad idea. I like not having to sit down to pee...

arkhamresident said:

Let her spend the clues. She'll change her mind when she spends three clues, gets three failures, and loses three stamina because of it.

jeremyj621 said:

To clarify, each bonus die offers a +1 bonus to the number rolled. Therefore, a Blessed investigator gets a success on a roll of 3-6, a Cursed investigator gets a success on a roll of 5-6, and an investigator that's neither Blessed nor Cursed gets a success on a roll of 4-6. I like to use dice of a different color so you can tell which are the bonus dice and which are the normal dice, just in case any re-rolls are made. I've tested this out, and I think it works well; it's fair since players will only be spending clue tokens on skill checks in desperate situations and should be offered a better chance of success.

jeremyj621 said:

I take it you don't have Dunwich yet. Dunwich provides six Skills (one for each Stat) that do almost exactly that, but it affects all dice for the given Stat Check. I fear you're stealing the thunder from the Grapple Skill, one of the most favorite around here.

jgt7771 said:

I do have Dunwich, so this rule, combined with those skills, would add +2 to the roll of each bonus die for the applicable skill. Still, skills are dealt and acquired randomly, so the chance that any investigator will draw one of those coveted skills is small, especially if you're using more than one expansion pack.

jeremyj621 said:

i'd say it's the other way around. if the clue spending provided a bigger benefit, they'll be used more. in more situations it could be viable to spend a clue token if it could get you a 50/50 chance.

even worse, once you pop you can't stop - if you spend your first clue on something and fails, you might as well spend a second clue too, as they're still worth 50% chance .. they'd get burned faster and more often.

Taurmindo said:

I always thought the can't stop popping clues deal is very thematic. It adds to the tension. You are wasting your precious knowledge needed to seal the gate to instead try for personal gain, or escaping a monster in your path. It greatly adds to the tension of the game, and you can feel the pain as you know your journey through the gate is now a close and not a seal.. LOVE IT!