Apparently, there's a lot of different version of genestealers out there.

First, there's Dark Heresy genestealers, which I haven't seen the stats for.

Then there's the Final Sanction genestealers, which my players are cleaving through regularly. The FS genestealers only have 2 attacks and 1 dodge, no preturnatural speed either.

Then step it way up to the Emperor Protects genestealers, which seem insanely nasty, but provide a nice bit of challenge to a Deathwatch group that might be too sure of itself.

I've got two groups going on right now, one going through Oblivion's Edge, and the other is going through The Price of Hubris, both will eventually be going through all of Emperor Protects.

Are the Auran Genestealers just a special thing for that planet?

Vertrucio said:

You can choose any and/or mix wildly. Nids are mutating/adapting constantly iirc. Keep your players on their toes. Send them a Broodlord with Bonesword, that will make them wonder what's next.

Alex

Good question.

I've been wondering the same thing. My plans are to include the final sanction/oblivions edge in the emperor protects storyline.

It's suggested that the genestealers there where planted by someone for some reason. I'm thinking it's some of the same apostate magi as from emperor protects who did it there as well. Only in a hive city it got way out of hand. I'll include the rescue scenario from the rule book as one of the smaller missions in oblivions edge having the rescued magus knowing something about the bad guy's plans and actions in the system.

So choosing genestealers is a concern.

I'm going with the nastier version since all fluff has always indicated they are really horrible. There's a reason why spacehulk boarding marines usually are terminators. Also it's the latest released version. Maybe during playtests it was concluded that they needed to be beefed up in order not to be too weak.

There should be a good reason why killing one in close combat single handedly for the first time gets you a 1 renown.

personally I would say that the Final Sanction ones are the least correct. This is because Final Sanction wasn't written to include all the special rules that a genestealer would have. If you look at the DH genestealer its basically the same stat wise, but its damage is dark heresy level not deathwatch level and it has about an inch of talents and traits that make it attack 4 times, dodge 2 times etc etc.

I have not seen the Emperor Protects Stealers. but personally I think the reason the FS ones are different is that their rules have been simplified to make them compatible with Final Sanction

Narkasis Broon said:

+1 to AK's response, Tyrannids are supposed to be constantly mutating and adapting, meaning all 3 of the stats are correct, as each strain could exist and have different abilities in each of the encounters you're refering to.

As for the FS Tyrannids, I agree they were probably streamlined, but this doesn't make them less correct. Regarding not being at DW level, I'm not sure I would agree. They do 2d10+12, an average of 23 damage with pen 5, which means most marines are taking 10 (subtracting 5 from the damage from armor, and 8 from toughness) damage with each hit. Then if they actually are getting good hits (2+ DoS to hit on a WS check of 65, so just under half the time) the penetration is 10, meaning that marine just took 15 damage. Put that in a surprise round, add more than one genestealer, and consider their +6 initiative modifire and you have a nasty surprise waiting for your battle brothers.

A Dark Heresy guardsman wearing carapce (give him a 4 toughness and 6ap) would take 16 damage with the soft hit, or 21 damage with the better one. Then add a surprise round and multipe stealers and see what happens.

And FWIW, I would be more frightened of a lone genestealer on a space hulk that's been adrift in the warp for 100 years than I would of a genestealer planetside- Emperor only knows what has been going on in that hulk for the last century.

I am in agreement with AK and Charmander when it comes to utilizing all of the varied Genestealer stat lines. Think of each as a different strain, and that none of the published stats are intended to be all inclusive where the Genestealer is concerned.

-=Brother Praetus=-

How to run Nids: mutate from encounter to encounter. More work for the GM, more unpredictable fun for the players.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Maybe... From encounter to encounter might be a bit much. Perhaps every few encounters, to indicate new bioforms being released. Probably safe to make changes to each branch of a hive fleet. Example: The strains raining down on the fortress world of Hethgard are not exactly the same as those currently being fought on Castobel or Freya or Vanir . Some commonalities, of course, but certain differences to make fights on different worlds feel a bit different.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

The reasoning behind my statement was: don't let the players find safety in the belief that an invasion fleet is only building one strain of each species at maximum. I think on a Hiveship there will be several mutated forms of hormagaunt at any one time, for example. Tentacled, double-headed, regenerating/degenerating, poisonous, whatever you want. Just avoid to subvert the uniqueness of the Chaos flavour of mutation.

Alex

I think the "Razor Sharp" rule from Deathwatch is much better at representing the "Rending" rule from the 40K tabletop game than the flat AP genestealers are given in Creatuers Anathema .

I agree charmander, I can see the logic behind using different strains of genestealer.

Just to clarify my previous statement I meant a dark heresy 'stealer (specifically the one from creatures anathema if there are more than one) does not do deathwatch level damage. It only does 1d10+7 including strength bonus which can't even harm a good portion of marines. I find a Dark heresy stealer with landsholme damage do be the ultimate stealer, but I am very careful with how I use them, as they are truly brutal and it would be easy to overwhelm players with them

Narkasis Broon said:

I thought that at first. The feeling swiftly passed - my group just pushed into Rank 2 and finished Final Sanction, and I used the 'Stealers from The Emperor Protects... sure, the Runepriest got his face ripped off by a Genestealer during the battle at the spaceport, and two characters burnt a Fate Point each during the fight in the refinery at the end, but the group otherwise survived... battered and bloodied and exhausted, but triumphant.

Turns out, Tactical Spacing and the Counter-attack talent are a deadly combination. As are a 6-man Kill-Team that works extremely well together. I plan to challenge them further with Oblivion's Edge. Not even a Devastator with BS73 can kill a theoretically infinite number of Hormagaunts...

As an aside, there's one other variant of Genestealers you've overlooked - there's a version in the write-up for Port Wander in the Rogue Trader sourcebook Into the Storm - they infest a derelict vessel hanging at the system's edge. As with most of the other appearances of Genestealers in the 40kRP games, they're marked as being of a particular strain.

While I agree that 'nids develop and the different kinds of 'stealers represent different stains, then there is one more thing I think could be considered.

One might argue that 'stealers become more powerfull when the purity of the "pure-stains" improve. As such, a new or recent 'stealer infestation might include a larger numer of the "weaker" 'stealers as they still haven't reached a genetical purity of sufficient level - on the other hand, a planet where the brood has been active for a longer period of time, more of the 'stealers are of optimum genetical quality, and as such much tougher (or as it is, faster...)

You could also use a larger number of hybrids in young broods, and let these have worse stats than the baddest 'stealers out there. This might be a cosmetical effect, where you describe how the horrible Xenos Abominations look a bit like humans, but with clear xenos "mutations" (and you use the rules for the weaker stealers on these, or make slight alterations to the good old cultist hordes.

I'm currently running Final Sanction and I've been using the stats from Creatures Anathema which have been causing them some trouble but nothing major. What they don't know yet is that I'm going to spring the news on them that these beasties are actually 1st Generation Stealers... the real Purestrains will use Emperor Protects stats.

Boy are they in trouble!

I really like the ones from Creatures anathema. the only change I've made to them is giving their attacks the razorsharp quality.

Sorry for the slight thread-necro here, but do any of these different stats have Swift/Lightening attacks, or rules for making more than one attack each round? They have more than one arm after all, so some sort of Two-Weapon-Fighting might be in order too.

If there is only one attack made by a stealer each round, then I see these being parried rather easily by a group of slightly skilled melee fighters with a few extra fate points.

A Genestealer hast the Multiple Arms Trait which gives +1 attacks per Round.

So together with Swift Attack this makes 3 attacks and Lightning Attack even 4.

Cheers,

TechVoid.

Well, the Final Sanction stealers had no talents at all, just the Unnatural Strength Trait. The Broodlord had a special rule giving it 3 attacks ("Lord of the Brood"), but apart from that, nothing.

The unofficial genestealer fan-made suppliment gives the Patriarch Swift Attack, but not the Genestealers (They have the multiple Arms, though)

Haven't got the Anathema or Emperor Protect stats, so can't check

Genestealers with multiple arms get two, and I think it's assumed that the razor sharp quality somehow reflects the other two limbs, without complicating matters with the requirement for more dice rolls. Frankly: Two attacks with razor sharp is kind of enough. Four attacks would utterly swamp the character's ability to do anything significant in defence, which is a poor option game-wise.

Either swift attack or lightning attack can't remember which, Razor Sharp, Preternatural Speed and Step Aside are the talents I can remember off hand from The Emporer Protects, one of them almost slughtered a four man kill team thanks to a surprise round, I think those ones have been breeding out for over a decade though so they are fiarly purestrain Genesteeler which is why they are good, I like the idea with the less able ones being less pure strain, actual different strains of genestellers would be better represented with a mix about of traits etc. A strength bonus instead of the Preternatural speed for a larger but slower strain for example.

Darth Smeg said:

Where could i find this fan-made supplement?

Right here , under Genestealer Cults

Siranui said:

Genestealers are not to be trifled with, as they are normally handled by Terminator squads against who the Genestealers still have the ability to open like a tin can.

Pfft... They were weaklings in Space Hulk. Advanced Space Crusade taught us all that space marine SCOUTS can deal with Tyranid warriors in close combat!

Or...not. Silly game.

Darth Smeg said:

Thanks heaps!

Siranui said:

Well it did have quite a few flaws but it also had some really excellent ideas. It needed a lot more polish and was never the brilliant game that space hulk was but given the right treatment a new edition of it could be brilliant.

As for Genestealers being weaklings in space hulk... maybe it was who you were playing? I got some awesome kill ratios in that game playing Genestealers, which is why i went on to play a stealer cult in 40k 1st and 2nd ed and then Tyranids in epic and 40k 2nd ed to current. I even repainted my traitor titan legion in adeptus titanicus (my first GW game) so they were taken over by a genestealer cult.