What would be your combo to win the "most powerful combat party" award?

3 dwarf ironbreakers?

jh

Ironbreaker/Warrior Priest of Sigmar/Troll (Giant?) Slayer would be pretty tough to beat.

What rank? Are you allowing duplicate actions/talents on different PCs?

I agree with Darret, at least to the effect that a Priest of Sigmar is probably desired. He will provide some additional buffs and, more importantly, healing to the group. Well worth giving up some of the damage and soak potential. I am assuming a 'long-term' scenario here. For a single battle, with newly created PCs, probably 3 ironbreakers purely for the awesomesauce that is the Gromril armor. Honestly, Trollslayers don't have much going for them over an Ironbreaker, except for the spikey hair.

Then again, 3x ranged specialists with longbows and Rapid Shot and various other ranged Actions (Immobilizing Shot, etc) can be pretty deadly in several instances.

Rank 1, new party.

jh

Then, assuming just a single battle, in close quarters, 3x ironbreakers are probably the best. The sheer To + Armor soak will keep them alive for a very long time, while judicious melee attack action choices will let them do some hefty damage, especially if they don't use shields and go 2-handed or 2-weaponed. They won't have much need of healing during combat, since their wounds will tend to be fairly minimal.

My group is an Ironbreaker, a fighty priest of sigmar, a dwarf agent who can hold his own in combat, and a bright wizard. They do pretty well; even the putative weak link agent does ok thanks to judicious action selections and basic dwarfy awesomeness.

Drop him from the mix, and you've still got a line up that can deal with most combat scenarios very handily. Thiefy and social options would be lacking of course...

Hi,

Probably 3 halflings; a commoner, his servant and a mutant theif. good enough for sauron, good enough for me.

More seriously; Ironbreaker, Sigmar priest and probably Wardancer (buy some armour, high ag for fast group initiate, and hefty damage)

Have fun.

Iron Breaker, Sword Master, Bright Wizard. Iron Breaker Soaks damage and can tie up mobs or the boss. Bright Wizard can deal with handing out area damage and range attacks. Sword Master can get his combos going and deal massive damage to anything that the Iron Breaker can't in one round.

At Rank 1, straight from creation, the Bright Wizard isn't going to be optimal in a fight. Don't get me wrong, they are useful ... but the question is "the best" group of 3 purely for a single combat with fresh newbie PCs. The BW is fragile, and his damage output for the most part won't exceed what can be accomplished by a combat oriented melee (or ranged) PC. As for the Swordmaster ... there is nothing technically preventing an Ironbreaker from taking those same actions and using a Greatsword, while still wearing his armor. The GSoH is minimally better than a normal GS, with 1 less DR but the ability to choose between 2 critical results (should he critical). Conversely, any new PC will be hard-pressed to buy a suit of full-plate at creation to come close to the IB's Soak.

So, an IB at creation has an immense advantage because of the "free" plate armor, allowing them to have a high soak as well as plenty of creation points for stats and lots of attack actions. Since most Attack Actions can be taken by anyone and aren't career restricted, Wardancers and Swordmasters don't really have an advantage in that regard.

All True, but if you completely ignore all the flavor, and are just going out to min/max the hell out of everything what's the point?

Ah, but the nature of the question was about maxing. It wasn't about what is the most flavorful, or most realistic. It was a question about "what is the best"? I approached the question that way, and gave my answer that way. In no way is a group of 3 IBs very realistic, or probably very fun (for very long, anyway), nor flavorful. I don't think I'd let a group run more than a single IB at a time, for example. Purely from a "min-max" theoretical gaming perspective, which is what the original question seemed to be asking, 3x IBs just gives too many advantages because of their default/"free" armor when you are looking at combat-only (and a single one).

Now, if we want to alter the question and add a caveat that no career can be represented more than once ... then the field opens up a bit for more interesting variety and choices.

I have a high-Agility Waywatcher in my group with Rapid shot. He goes first and kills things right off the bat almost every time, and has since the start. A group like that would be pretty insane in combats *if* it's an environment favorable to shooting.

dvang said:

We could banter back and forth all day. The original question was totally without context, so interpretations will very. BTW I'm also not trying to suggest that 3xIB's is bad, it's quite ridiculous actually from a sheer numbers game.

Kryyst said:

My answer was assuming the group followed the one career only variant, since that's how my group plays.

My answer, or 3x IB, would work fine right up until the enemy attacked from an elevated position with ranged or magical attacks on the close-combat specialized group. I like the addition of a ranged attacker in place of the second IB/Trollslayer.

Yes, a lot will depend on the situation, for example. Perhaps I was just making assumptions about the situation as posed in the initial post. I agree (and posted earlier) that having 2 or even 3 ranged specialists would be very powerful in some instances too, even over 3x IBs. However, I had been assuming a single short melee-range combat as the original question. "Min-max" I would have to go with 3x IBs for that kind of fight. It's certainly ridiculous, and I hope no GM allows it, unless everyone involved is aware of the challenges with doing that.

Using a more realistic group composition, IB+SM+BW wouldn't be too bad ... although I do have some doubts regarding the durability of the BW. I'd probably use a Priest of Sigmar instead, or a ranged specialist.

Here's a suggestion too ... a Ratcatcher! If he takes some of the pet attack tricks, the pet makes a nice harrier and assistant.

Yes the BW can be fragile then the priest of Sigmar. Where I personally think the BW gains the advantage is in his versatility in the use of cantrips. I was also thinking Grey Mage instead of the BW and would substitute them as overall more useful when you look at non-combat situations. But in combat the BW's damage potential at rank 1 beats out the Grey Mage.

As an example to support my preference for the BW - they can start fires at will - the Old World is full of forests and in the one group I'm thinking of in particular I'm pretty sure the person who's playing the BW has a little bit of a pyromania in him.

I agree that a BW is versatile and useful outside of combat. I'll also agree that, because of their versatility, they can potentially be useful in a "story" way regarding combat, such as trying to set the forest on fire.

Again, I was looking purely at a fairly straight-up combat in close quarters (which is how I interpreted the original post's question) ... pretty much just considering number-crunching and not RP elements, such as cantrips (that don't directly deal damage). For a well-rounded group, if you include more story-like elements/potential, then a BW would not be a bad choice as long as he can keep out of range of enemies.