Hi All,

Crypt Ghouls: Action: when this unit leaves play, gain 2 recources.
Rulebook p15: Actions are always optional, and can be triggerd by either player during any action window in the game sequence.

The thing what puzzels me is how to use it with Crypt Ghouls. How can i use this action ?

The same for:
Keeper of the Flame: Action: This unit takes 1 uncancellable damage. If it does, destroy target attachment support card.

I would understand Forced effect better and how to use it in the game.

maybe i overlook something ?

Thanks for your guidance

Not sure where you're confusion is. There is an action window after removing characters where the Crypt Ghouls action could be taken. You use the action in that window. Action windows are on Page 14

Thanks for the reply.

For example: When the active players plays (tactic) "you's Bigga": Sacrifice a unit to lower the cost...etc. and chooses Crypt ghouls to be sacrificed. So the crypt ghouls action kicks in and the active player recieves 2 resources and may lower the cost of "You's Bigga" ? If there are no more actions played ?

thanks from a newborn noobie

blkdymnd said:

Trouble is that there always isn't, at least not right away. For example, you use Berserk Fury on CG, they take 2 dmg and die at the end of the turn, no Action window there.

Dam, that's brilliant !

Please, let's take a look at another card;
Sea Guard Captain Action: when this unit attacks, deal 1 indirect damage to taget opponent.

The way i read this card (i'm not native English) it is triggered as soon as it is declared as an attacker "when this unit attacks.." . To me this is not optional (rulebook, actions) it is more a forced effect, unless you declare attackers one by one, in order to resolve the actions (if this is the case i misread the rules)
If you had two Sea guard Captains and both declare them as an attacker you would have two actions at once, correct ?

So What is the difference between a forced effect and an action ?
for example: Festering Nurglings Forced: after this unit enters play, corupt one target unit....
Would it be different if FN was an action instead?

Hope you can help me with this small issue.

Forced means you have to do it if you can, even if you don't want to (because it's actually bad for you), while Action is something you can trigger, but don't have to. So when you declare the Sea Guard Captain as an attacker, you may have it deal 1 indirect damage to your opponent, but you don't have to. Maybe he has Warrior Priests and you don't want him to assign that damage to them and redirect it at one of your units. In the Festering Nurgling's case, you have to corrupt a unit in any corresponding zone, so if your opponent doesn't have any there, you have to corrupt one of your own. So playing them can hurt you, if it were an Action you could just not activate it.

Wido-NL said:

SGC (and other that have the attack as their trigger) are used in the Action Window after Declare Attackers step. If an opponent has redirection abilities in play, sometimes you might not want to ping him for IDD since it would come back to your own unit(s).

Forced you are, well, forced to do when the trigger comes up, even if you don't want to. If you go first and play FN as your first unit, then they would be forced to corrupt themselves. If it were an Action:, then you could choose to corrupt a unit, so probably if FN were the first unit in play, you wouldn't do it, but if opponent had a unit in his corresponding zone, you would.

Thanks for the clarifications,

To make the cycle complete (as it already is):
With a Bloodthirster (Forced: after your turn begins, each player must sacrifice a unit in this corresponding zone) and the Crypt ghouls in the coresp. zone in play. After sacrificing CG, you will not get the 2 resources, while: Forced effects alway.....they cannot be cancelled or interruted by other actions (p15). correct ?

Thanks for sharing your infinitie wisdom.

I would say you do get them. While yes, can't respond to a Forced, beginning of turn (Phase 0) allows Actions, so CG would trigger their action and net 2 resources.

Thanks !!

Cleared up the questions

Dam said:

Crypt Ghouls is just another card where they screwed up the card text. You can't actually ever use it with the way its written. There is no action window "when" a unit is destroyed. By the time you can take an action, the card has already been removed from play, and you can't trigger the Action from a card in your discard pile. You have to basically treat the card as if it were a constant effect or a Forced that says "When this unit leaves play, you may gain 2 resources."

There are TONS of cards in this game that are written this way, and a few of them get errata in every FAQ. The errata for Altar of Khaine is pretty much directly applicable to Crypt Ghouls as well. I don't understand why they were ever printed as "Action".

The designer(s) of this specific card text, and many others, had a clear idea (at least i hope) how this card would work in the gameflow. I presume it is tested and their must be a way to handle it according in the "Action windows"?
But yes, i also noticed the TONS of action cards in the latest battlepacks, verry few of them were constant or forced effects. Which would make it easier to understand (in my opninion).

You can choose the moment where you would use the actions, so it gives you more "control" in the game, maybe that is the reason why there are more action cards ?

Wido-NL said:

You can't choose the moment when you would use this action though, since it has a trigger condition. You can only use it when the unit leaves play. Unfortunately there is no action window there. Most of the "Action" cards that trigger off of stuff like a unit dying should just be constant effects that say you "may" do the action.

Garden of Morr is another example of this, and is almost the exact same problem as Crypt Ghouls. It will be errata'ed in the next FAQ to be "Forced". I'd wager Crypt Ghouls will become a Forced/constant in FAQ v1.3 or 1.4 as well.

Entropy42, you have a good point. Wonder why the used Actions though?

And how to handle keeper of the flame (for i still don't get it) its says:
Action: This unit takes one uncancellable damage. if it does destroy ....

Does the active player has the option to use this action ? Put 1 unc. damage on this unit to trigger its effect?
OR
Is it triggerd when its dealt uncancellable damage (like cloud of flies:at the beginning of your turn, you may deal one uncancellable dmg)?

Thanks !

It's optional, if you use the Action, Keeper takes 1 uncancellable, you get to remove an Attachment.

Wido-NL said:

Actions are always optional. I'd guess thats why they originally worded Crypt Ghouls as an action, even though that can be accomplished by just using "may" in the ability.

Hello Dam and Entropy42,
Thanks for the answers, really helpfull.
Great !