What would this look like in Deathwatch? I think of it as the left shoulder being the regular deathwatch

symbol and the right being the terminus ultra symbol. The reason I think there wouldnt be the regular chapter symbol on the right

is because I think marines will wear teminater armour owned by the deathwatch so one brother wouldnt be in posseson of one terminater

suit but this is contridicted by the fact that it says about terminater armour in the rulebook:

With a termus ultra symbol on the left shoulder plate

any help here please?

Also what kind of missions are so dangerous to require terminater armour?

not sure about the shoulder plates. but I would say as for the kind of missions that require terminators, danger will be a factor, as will the skill of the marines in question. but I would like to think that the biggest factor would be the relative closeness of the fighting. boarding actions, space hulks, hive ships and breaching a fortress might all be made easier with terminator armour as the more cramped the conditions the better terminator armour is for the marines, relatively speaking.

certainly space hulks are often portrayed as requiring terminators because of the tight quarters and relative lethality of genestealers. from a game mechanics point of view i would say this means for a mission to be dangerous enough to warrant terminator armour I might require that most or all of the enemies fought will be elite or higher. but having said that in Horus Rising there is a chapter where terminators are used to break open a fortress in a mountain thats guarded only by humans (possibly with power armour it isnt really shown) but my point is that sometimes terminators are used for easy missions not because the mission requires terminators but because terminators will do it best with the fewest casualties

[edit] having thought about it I agree with you that the deathwatch terminator armour will probably not have any chapter insignia on as standard but I flat out don't believe that most marines would go into battle without his chapter symbol displayed. He might just temporarily attach one to the armour in a similar manner to the way oath's of moment are attached to the armour for each battle. (I don't think I'm making this up, again this is coming from Horus Rising)

Most likely the right shoulder pad would have the chapter colours and symbol, and the left should pad would have a special Deathwatch Crux Terminatus (in silver of course).

As the Terminator armour belongs to the Deathwatch, not the Space Marines Chapter, the Crux Terminatus would be unique to the Deathwatch like the Space Wolves have a unique Crux Terminatus.

For the reasons for wearing Terminator armour I agree with whats already been said, but you still have to earn the privilege to wear Terminator armour. Even if your about to board a space hulk, if you don't have Terminator Honours you won't be wearing the armour.

tygre said:

The models on GW's site show the left pad with the skull and eye rather than the inquisitorial "I", so I'd imagine you're right, the crux would go right on top of the catechism of the xenos

Okay I think I get it, instead of the eye and skull and cross-bone a crux symbol would go on top instead?

But I dont really understand about the chapter insigna being on the right. These suits are owned by the

Deathwatch meaning that diffrent marines will use one suit of armour, for example

In one mission a ultramarine will use a suit of armour and in the next a space wolf from a diffrent kill team will use the same suit of armour

So how would it work? im guessing that the chapter insigna would be swaped each time a new marine was wearing the suit

I'd have said that they'd have the symbol of their Chapter on an icon shield on the front of the terminator armour, like this:

Would like to point out thats is a blood Angel and the skull on the shield is the making of the 1st company

I know that. However, in the Deathwatch, since there is no 1st Company, they could instead have their Chapter symbol on that shield. It'd make sense, and not need you to move the shoulder symbols around, and you can just take the icon off when you aren't using the armour, and someone else can put theirs on it instead.

Thats a good idea i think i'll do that

so, in light of this develepmont would you agree that Left shoulder = deathwatch symbol right shoulder- termus ultra bage

Also a question which also would help how would it work on scout armour since its the same context (ie: owned by deathwatch not marine)

Or when they become hero level they can request armour from the home chapter, or the chapter has some 'on loan' to the DW.

Ben

The left shoulder pad would have the Deathwatch's Crux Terminatus and the right would be the Chapter's icon. The reason I say this is, why wouldn't it be? Maybe the Deathwatch has their own Terminator armor but the Chapters could supply some shoulder pads of their own or....*gasp* the artisans of the Fortress could take the empty left shoulder pad and put the user's Chapter on it.

Also think on the fact that if you put the Deathwatch Terminator shoulder pad on one side and the Chapter's on the other then you are making the suit many times more important as the suit would have two pieces of the Emperor's armor in it, AND two shield generators. I don't think a Chapter would be willing to go so far as to give up THAT much to the Deathwatch.

The Crux Terminatus isn't a shield generator, the armour is just so bloody thick and tough that it is as resilient as a field.

That being said, the Deathwatch probably simply add bits to the Crux to make it look like a mixture of Deathwatch iconography and a Crux, since both incorporate somewhat similar heraldry. A silver arm , shoulderpad and skull, with crossbones, over an Inquisitorial pillar, perhaps? So, yeah, the Terminator badge and the Deathwatch badge would be merged, I think.

Actually the Crux Terminatus IS a shield generator. The Deathwatch game has it wrong. In the tabletop game which is where I take most of my fluff from says that it is so.

muzzyman1981 said:

Page reference? I have it here, and it doesn't say shield generator.

I've got two squads of DW Termies in my DW army, and for all of them I have a DW Termy pad on one side and Chapter pad on the other. The DW pad goes on the side the Crux Terminatus usually goes on, so I see no reason to relocated it to the other side.

Plus, how else was I going to use all those fancy Forge World Chapter Termy shoulder pads?

BYE

muzzyman1981 said:

Thats´ fluff. It is said the pieces of the emperor´s armor in each Crux protect the marines but neither in the tabeltop nor in the rpg is has a force-field function!

I stumbled across this littlepiec of information on the lexicanum site:

A Terminator captain is among the most highly skilled and experienced warriors humanity has ever produced. In recognition of their achievements, these Marines are allowed the honour of wearing a distinctive badge that incorporates fragments of the Emperor's armour. During his struggle against Horus aboard the Warmaster's battle barge at the climax of the Heresy, the Emperor was aided by a squad of Terminators from the Imperial Fists chapter. In recognition of their act of valour, the mortally wounded Emperor ordered that his own suit of armour be taken off and melted down, and its shards incorporated into badges that all Terminator Captains should wear. Therefore all efforts are made to recover the suits of Captains killed in action as the loss of such a relic brings great dishonour to the squad and the Chapter.

This makes much more sense than the idea that every terminator armour contains a shard of the big E's armour.

The Crux is effectively a ward that acts as if it was a Force Field. Page 164 in DW. Or page 102 in the Codex - it is probably the source of the Terminators' invul save. Also read page 64 in the Codex for confirmation that it is rumoured to contain a piece of the big E's armour.

Alex

Older fluff mentions that only Terminator Captains have an actual piece of the emperors armour in ther crux terminatus.

I think that DW just worded it very badly.

I assume what they meant was that the percentage chance of ignoring hits was purely due to the armour's mundane protective abilities and the chance of striking a location that was thickly armoured/sloped enough to defeat the blow.

Siranui said:

From the Codex:

"The ceramite plates can deflect most conventional assaults, whilst the Crux Terminatus on every Terminator's shoulder plate serves as a ward capable of turning aside even attacks from power weapons or melta fire. It is even said that Terminator armour can withstand the titanic energies at a plasma generator's core, and that this was in fact the armour's original purpose."

Alex

Yeah. Not in my world.

Terminators never used to have integral wards or forcefields (except for Librarians and GKs), and it has no overload chance. It's just a bit slab of armour.

Siranui said:

Well, in 40K RT there is an illustration of a Terminator Captain and his badge is said to contain a fragment of the Emperor's armour. That of course does not say anything about whether other Terminator does armour or does not contain another fragment. Also in 40K RT the armour could be fitted with a refractor field. I believe this was then retconned into - every armour has a fragment of the Emperor's armour and it is the source of the armour's ward.

Alex

Gw seems to contradict themselves alot on many tpoics, and this is just one of many.

In the games that I run as GM however, the "forcefield quality" of a terminator armour has nothing to do with a ward or anything. The save comes from the fact that it's the the toughest mass produced armour int he Imperiums history, and that is simply much cooler imo.

Going by the older flyff, with only Terminator captains having actual fragments of the emperors armour embedded within their crux terminatus, I might give a special rule to a watch captain in terminator amrour, but I doubt that will ever matter, or come into play in my game.

mjbarrett said:

Keep in mind that these suits are made out of multiple plates of armor, and generally designed to be more or less identical from one suit to another. They could easily ask the marine to bring a right shoulder plate from his own chapter and swap it on to the DW suit that the marine will be wearing. If the suit is later given to a marine from a different chapter, they can replace the right shoulder plate with one from his chapter.

It's my understanding of the fluff that Terminator armor is highly restricted because they don't know how to make new suits of it anymore, as such, I would imagine any marine who has earned the right to wear it would have his own suit, and thus having a spare chapter-specific shoulder plate to bring with him to the DW wouldn't be an issue.

Marines in DW are not like the models used in tabletop - the details aren't locked in by their paint job. =)