The Ordo Xenos specifically has jurisdiction over people operating beyond the bounds of the Imperium, so I doubt their influence stops at Port Wander. Thoughts?

Most Rogue Traders will be fine - dealing with xenos is just a part of their function. The Inquisition will have less mercy on the other parties involved in the Cold Trade - the buyers. The RT needs to be discreet, or others won't be willing to deal in xenos items for fear of the Inquisition following the trail. So, IMO, the risk from the Inquisition is more one of losing profit than of personal risk.

I agree Ordo Xenos has the right and power to stop the Cold Trade wherever they find it. However, in my campaign, it matters what you're selling.

A broken vase from the Egarian Domain? As long as you do flaunt it, no worries. But we'd like to track it's progress downstream, see what else these folks are moving.

Waters of Vaporius? Bad, but not loose your writ time. A stern warning will do. We may use you to track others in the cold trade. Be thankful it's nothing more.

Halo Artifacts? Welcome to the chambers of pain below Bastion Serpentis. Pray for a quick death. You won't get it, but prayer is good for the soul.

My players have been instructed to engage in the Cold Trade by Inquisitor Silas Marr. They are to get pict recordings and gene samples of the dealers who take their wares. They are not to pass on items like Halo Artifacts, but they've been told to "Act like Rogue Traders, not Choir Boys."

Fortinbras said:

Technically, the Ordo Xenos, like any of the Ordos, isn't really a formal organisation so much as a collection of Inquisitors of a particular inclination. On the other hand, the idea of jurisdictional limitations for an Inquisitor seems inappropriate, so it's a moot point anyway.

The interaction between Rogue Traders and Inquisitors is an interesting one. An Inquisitor's power is based on the presence of the Imperium - an Inquisitor can employ potentially any resource the Imperium has to offer, meaning that he's most effective within the Imperium. A Rogue Trader's power is greatest when outside the Imperium, as the Warrant of Trade essentially means that when a Rogue Trader voyages beyond Port Wander, that Rogue Trader is the Imperium. While an Inquisitor could attempt to arrest a Rogue Trader on his own bridge, the resulting dispute may not go well for either party.

An Inquisitor, regardless of his inclination, may struggle to find the means to persecute a Rogue Trader while they're in the Koronus Expanse, even in a place as relatively nearby as Footfall. However, a Rogue Trader can't remain outside of the Imperium forever, meaning that most Inquisitors are content to wait until a Rogue Trader returns and question him then, particularly if they've got cells of Acolytes and other agents infiltrating Footfall and even various starships moving about the Expanse to feed them information.

When it comes to judging the guilty... well, when you're dealing with the top layer of Imperial politics (Peers of the Imperium, such as Inquisitors and Rogue Traders), the matter becomes less about the law and more a matter of negotiations and blackmail. A Rogue Trader, like an Imperial Commander (indeed, many Rogue Traders are the Imperial Commanders of the worlds they've claimed), is still technically subject to the Lex Imperialis, and consequently can be judged before an Adeptus Arbites court for crimes against the Imperium... the crime of trafficking in alien artefacts will likely be punishable by execution. For a Rogue Trader or any powerful individual with a legacy to maintain, this would be a particularly embarrassing failure, as the trial and execution would be matters of record and would taint the endeavours of his descendants. Similar if he were hauled before a Cardinal for his sins (many crimes in the Imperium are also sins...). That's not to say that an Inquisitor couldn't judge, condemn and even excommunicate the Rogue Trader himself... but a private, secret execution is a different matter to one made public (to show the citizenry that nobody escapes retribution for their crimes and/or sins). Thus comes the fun part, as the Rogue Trader and Inquisitor start negotiating for another way out of the situation...

There's a brief section on the operations of the Inquisition relating to the Koronus Expanse in Edge of the Abyss, on page 95. The Agent of the Throne Elite Advance in Into the Storm is designed for a character whose loyalties are to an organisation within the Imperium.

It's important to remember the privileges bestowed upon the Rogue Trader by his Warrant of Trade. The Rogue Trader is empowered to deal with Impirial Inquisitor's (among others) as equals.

An Inquisitor cannot technically arrest another inquisitor, but they may choose to forcefully incarcerate them and then brave the oncoming shitstorm from the higher-ups in the Inquisition (Should word of course reach said higher-ups). By that time the Inquisitor had better gather a bulletproof case against his colleague, or it will be HIS ass in the fire.

BUT! When dealing with a Rogue Trader this becomes exceedingly difficult, since they are granted the right to operate beyond the rules that bind, and employ whatever means and method they find necessary, as long as they can make a half-assed point about it benefitting mankind. Dealing with the scum of the Impirium, Aliens and Traitors are just means to an end for the Rogue Trader and they are permitted to utilize these means by the authority of the Senatorium Impirialis, so anything lower than an Inquisitor Lord can stick it.

A Rogue Trader can pilot his humonguous flying miracle of the Omnissah into orbit around Mars, unfurl his Eldar Sunsails and start drawing obscene figures in the void using the starships heat-trail. When the pissed-off Magos hails his vox and demands an explanation he can let his Sanctioned Ork Mekboy talk to the nice Magos and explain to him how "U'z umies is so stoopid" and that "half da' stuff in da engin'room is weak, stoopid git-stuff, an' da Orks makes bettar stuff, funny, red, metal umie!"

Sure it carries the risk that the AdMec will open fire, but if they do it will be no less than a catastrophy for them. Because what they've basically done is say: "You know that Emperor guy you guys think is so cool? You know the one who invented to concept of Rogue Traders and the idea that they were to be exempt from Impirial Law because they were to work for humanity by whatever means they figured, yes? yes -THAT- emperor. yeah... umm we know better, and we're not gonna respect that"

Seperate cult or not, the Ecclesiarchy (not to mention the Senatorium Impirialis) will take it as a declaration of (hopefully) political war.

Also, reminding you that this is the Impirium of Man we're talking about. It's the Middle-Age in space. A person of high enough standing will not be prosecuted foranything but the most explicitly henous crimes. an Arbitrator won't give a Rogue Trader a speeding ticket, or arrest him for Obscura possesion, that would be crazy. Career suicide!

Of course if the RT starts a shoot-out on a crowded street then of course the arbites may detain him, tempoarily. And while the RT may indeed may be forced to leave the planet (in fear of reprisal from the angry, recently widowed locals) he may still blow raspberries at the judges when he leaves.

Nearyn said:

Said Rouge Trader would get vapourised in short order. By brining those things into the demense of the God Emperor, he has forfitted his writ. The writ applies outside the bounds of the empire, not within. Except in special cases. But even so... Mars?!!? The Ad-Mech can do whatever they like, and get away with it, near Mars. Same with Terra, Ophellia, any Astartes world or just about any imperial world. What is to stop the battlefleet seeing those nice pretty sunsails and instinctivley opening fire? "High Bosun, shut down the vox! These Xeno scum are obviously trying to decieve us! Port guns FIRE!"

Nearyn said:

Actually, 95% of a Rogue Trader's authority only exists if he's not in the Imperium. That's kind of the point - they represent the Imperium when beyond its frontiers, so that it can be expanded. They don't have the remit to wander into the single most heavily defended system in the Imperium and flaunt their technological sins in front of the people who have the Emperor-given mandate to oversee the use, maintenance and knowledge of all technology in the Imperium (notably, a mandate that predates the creation of Rogue Traders, as it was pretty much the first thing the Emperor did after completing the Unification of Terra). The remaining 5% is a combination of who you know and what your reputation is.

Similarly, every Rogue Trader's Warrant of Trade is a unique legal document, with only the tiniest minority of them being the full-blown "go anywhere, do anything, signed by the Emperor Himself" kind. The rulebook covers this.

Nearyn said:

The Mechanicus have a presence amongst the Senatorium Imperialis. The Fabricator General of Mars is a High Lord of Terra. A Rogue Trader shows up over Mars (which isn't just the ruling world of the Adeptus Mechanicus, but also the central Imperial Navy base for Segmentum Solar, filled with very old and very powerful ships) with a ship virtually dripping with Xenos technology... and somebody will do something about it. If it's only a moon-sized Starport surrounded by an Imperial Navy Battlegroup opening fire on that ship, count yourself lucky.

Oh, and that whole "exempt from Imperial Law because they are to work for humanity by whatever means necessary" bit... yeah, Inquisitors have that. Inquisitorial Mandate means a freedom from the bureaucracy and law of the Imperium. A Warrant of Trade, by comparison, means "when you're outside the borders of the Imperium, you are the Imperium".

Unknown said:

Fun thing about Arbitrators... the Arbitor on the street can't touch a Rogue Trader, but go a few dozen steps up the chain of command, and his boss (a man who can and likely will condemn a Planetary Governor to death and carry out the sentence himself if the law requires it) can do something about it, if the situation requires.

They're called Peers of the Imperium. Inquisitors and Rogue Traders number amongst them, but they are not alone. An Imperial Commander (Planetary Governor), the Arch-Magos of a Forge World (who may also rule a world in his own right). Cardinals (who may also rule a world in his own right). Warmasters (and their equivalent titles, such as Lord Commander Militant). An Astartes Chapter Master (who likely also rules a world in his own right).

Being one of that elite group makes you sufficiently powerful to ignore 99% of inconvenient laws, through a combination of your own authority, your reputation, generally being awesome, and knowing all the right people. It's the 1% at the top that'll kill you, because they're the ones being enforced by other Peers of the Imperium, who will fight back if you push them hard enough.

Never mess with a Peer of the Imperium. Especially if you're also a Peer of the Imperium. One wrong step can have serious, and often lethal, repercussions. That's where the law stops and the deadliest sort of politics begin.

To get back to the topic: It all depends on who you are, what you trade and who sees it. Many aristocrats don't seem to be too ashamed of some objets d'art "made by unknown hands *nudge-nudge, wink-wink*", flaunting them quite openly as long as only their peers are around. Rogue Traders supplying this kind of minor and quite useless stuff likely won't be bothered by anyone as long as they don't make themselves impossible to ignore.

Dealing in Halo Devices is another matter...

That makes perfect sense

But then again thats the wonderful thing about this setting isn't it? No matter how much of a bigshot you are you are always just one bullet away from dying. Noone in the 41st millenium is truly untouchable (1st one to make an untouchable joke gets a kick in the teeth), but behind every decision looms consequense, be it the wrath of the Admech, the scorn of the ecclesiarchy or something even worse.

I kind of worked it out like this: If The Rogue Trader doesn't personally ferry the items past the Maw and into Imperial space, but hands it off to another organization at Footfall (the Kasabilica Mission, in this case) it's mostly not his problem and he possesses plausible deniability. With the exception of course that he's ferrying a Black Egg from the Veloxi.

Also, I agree it was my understanding that a Rogue Trader's authority is significantly diminished as soon as they reach Port Wander and the Calixis Sector, perhaps only extending his authority to the walls of his ship and granting him extraterritoriality there but only allowing him the right of transit and resupply throughout the Imperium, and perhaps the ability to call upon planetary resources for impressment as penal legions or press-ganged voidsmen or the like.

The fluff in one of the books talks about a Rogue Trader who was taken down by Ordo Xenos.

One thing to keep in mind is that not all writs are the same. Whereas one RT might get a writ to 'bring forth the emperor's thunder to thine realms beyond, and bringeth back the ruins', some other trader might just get one saying 'go to this sector and kick butt'. So some dynasty's might get more leeway depending on the fine print of their charter.

However, I imagine that being caught smuggling large amounts of xenos weapons, xenos animals not deemed 'genetically pure', and especially relics that are potentially warp-tech may all see that particular trader become, censured and reigned in, excommunicated, or even outright hunted down and slain.

But honestly, most arbites and inquisitors are going to focus on the small fry and or the part of the trade in the imperium proper. Partially because it's easier to work there, the other is that there are imperial factions that wish to obtain such artifacts themselves.

Oh, and the adeptus mechanicus are effectively a power unto themselves far in excess of any other imperial institution. If they let that ship last five seconds once they saw it, it's only so they could turn the entire crew into assembly line servitors, then either nuke the ship, or tear it apart for study. At worst they'd get some nasty letters from someone they'll likely just ignore. Most likely everyone else would shrug, and go about their own business.

Nojo509 said:

Nojo509 said:

It seems to me that Rogue Traders in general are 'technically' above the law, but that doesn't nessicarily stop the law from attempting to come down on them. It's kind of like if you piss off a cop, but don't technically do anything illegal, they might still try to take you in just to teach you a lesson (Nothing against cops, just the best example I can think of).

Fortinbras said:

Now that is going back a ways. BOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

Also, I agree it was my understanding that a Rogue Trader's authority is significantly diminished as soon as they reach Port Wander and the Calixis Sector, perhaps only extending his authority to the walls of his ship and granting him extraterritoriality there but only allowing him the right of transit and resupply throughout the Imperium, and perhaps the ability to call upon planetary resources for impressment as penal legions or press-ganged voidsmen or the like.

To say nothing of trumped-up charges. If an Inqusitor decides you are a threat to the Imperium, he is going to take you out. If it turns out he was wrong, he will way 'oopsie' and go find some other heretic to burn.

It all boils down to this:

'How much trouble.....'

'Exactly as much as the GM wants.'

Edit: 'AAAAGH! stupid formatting'

Karoline said:

But so are Inquisitors. If we were talking about any other Imperial organization I'd agree, but the Inquisition pretty much has carte blanche. They may not be able to take you down, but if they did nobody would ever question them for it.

Also: Yes, I'm beginning to show my age when I talk about Starflight.

Well the first thing to remember is that a RT is allowed to buy and sell xenos goods.

Where he can get into trouble is selling "proscribed" xenos goods WITHIN the imperium.

Not all xenos goods are illegal to sell in the imperium, raw materials, basic non-religious, non-warp, and non heretek goods are fine. Basically a xenos cup is just a cup and you can sell it. A xenos cup decorated with xenos religious figures is a no no and might get you a stern talking to (the inquisition may lecture you and want help in tracking down the supply chain). A xenos religious cup that is made of a psycho-reactive material used in warp related religious ceremonies will get you some serious penalties and the inquisition may decide to off you.. slowly. A xenos cup that has advanced sensors built in that can detect 99.9% of all toxic substances and warn the drinker MIGHT be a problem depending on if it is heretek or not.

Basically an item is heretek if it does not fall into one of the following categories.

1. The technology involved is currently in use in the imperium. The admech can make similar items it is just in this case the xenos provided the labor so it is not heretek.

2. The technology involved was at one time used by man but has since been lost (and is not among the proscribed lost technologies, AI's etc). This makes it effectively an archaeotech item. While the admech will not consider this heretek they will be more than a little interested in it and if some sort of accommodation with the admech is not reached they may move in to take over the situation in order to make sure this technology is in the right hands.

3. The Admech has decided that the item in question is not heretek. Basically the admech has last word here and they may decide that the items you are pedaling are heretek (even if they fall into the above catagories) for any number of reasons, everything from politics to personal dislike.

Of course all possible penalties require that you get caught and the one wanting to impose them has the means to do so.

In addition a RT in trouble for this sort of thing may be able to buy his way out or cut some sort of deal (services etc) with whoever (most likely an inquisitor) is trying to make life hard for him.

llsoth said:

How do you figure?

Fortinbras said:

In several ways.

First is in Disciples of the Dark Gods it specifically has a section on the cold trade. Among phrases like "Although there are numerous objects and artifacts that are outright illegal, there are a great many that are not, .." "The following is a sampling of such xeno-artifacts that form part of the Cold Trade, ranging from the merely exotic to the outright banned" It also mentions RT as being allowed to traffic in xenos goods as well. Written from a Dark Heresy perspective of course but good info none the less.

Second is that it would be kinda silly to give someone a "warrent of >>>TRADE<<<" to trade with xenos if all xenos goods are illegal in the imperium.

Third, there are examples of xenos goods in both the dark heresy books and in RT as part of basic equipment such as xenos mesh and digi-weapons. without there being any note in the fluff (especially in Dark Heresy where you think it would be important) of them being especially illegal. On the same note the availability of xenos mesh is not high enough if it really was proscribed xenos tech.

Those crazy Jokaero-built digital weapons certainly are not proscribed, and neither are a large number of more 'mundane' bits of xenotech. Important individuals are allowed even greater leeway, such as Commisar Yarrick and his Ork Power Klaw (and even his obvious corruption in speaking the Ork tongue is overlooked).

llsoth said:

That's funny, since there's not really a bunch of trading that goes on in Rogue Trader. There's a lot of conquistador-esque looting and salvaging, but not really the kind of merchant-house mogul Capitalism II style stuff you might expect from the words "trade". That's what I get for not being a literalist though. Suffice to say that, as HappyDaze remarked about his idea of the Imperium personally, my perception of the Imperium differs from yours in that my concept of the Rogue Trader doesn't simply stop at the word "trade". I think the Imperium's idea of a warrant of trade is more in line with the British chartering the East India Trade Company, which also fought wars, set up governments, and made treaties independently. That didn't mean they were allowed to trade things into Britain that were banned, though they did receive monopolies on certain goods. The difference there is fairly important.

Also it wasn't ever my understanding that digi-weapons were xeno-made, only exotic and rare. As for Xenos Mesh, yes, it's widely available, but I've never seen it worn on an NPC, only Rogue Trader explorers, so it was my understanding that they're allowed to purchase/wear xeno mesh because they're part of the Rogue Trader retinues, and all his immunities extend to them.

HappyDaze: Commissar Yarick is probably the best example I can think of, but then again, we are talking about a guy who hijacked his own personal Baneblade and renamed it The "Fortress of Arrogance". Then had an entire Imperial regiment make a suicide run to an Ork-infested world so they could salvage said Baneblade in time for the 3rd War for Armageddon. Personally if I were an Inquisitor I'd wonder if he hasn't succumbed to some sort of taint himself.

In addition, Yarrick isn't selling Orkytech (How does his Powerklaw even WORK?! It's Ork-tech! It's not supposed to work with humies!) to others, like a Rogue Trader invested in the "Cold Trade" presumably would be. I think the distinction comes from, say, picking up a Tau Pulse Rifle for your own personal use as a trophy of war, and setting up a trade route between Tau and Imperial worlds where those pulse rifles could potentially be used against said Imperium.

My view of a RT is pretty much pure conquistador the three Gs Gold, Glory, and God.

The reason I stressed trade out of warrent of trade is because the ability to trade with the xenos, in the name of the imperium no less, is the most exotic of their powers. Every navy and chartist captain commands a starship, every guard or IDF general commands troops, most nobles have great wealth, but ONLY Rogue Traders can trade with Xenos. It is what truly sets them apart.

Fortinbras said:

HappyDaze: Commissar Yarick is probably the best example I can think of, but then again, we are talking about a guy who hijacked his own personal Baneblade and renamed it The "Fortress of Arrogance". Then had an entire Imperial regiment make a suicide run to an Ork-infested world so they could salvage said Baneblade in time for the 3rd War for Armageddon. Personally if I were an Inquisitor I'd wonder if he hasn't succumbed to some sort of taint himself.

In addition, Yarrick isn't selling Orkytech (How does his Powerklaw even WORK?! It's Ork-tech! It's not supposed to work with humies!) to others, like a Rogue Trader invested in the "Cold Trade" presumably would be. I think the distinction comes from, say, picking up a Tau Pulse Rifle for your own personal use as a trophy of war, and setting up a trade route between Tau and Imperial worlds where those pulse rifles could potentially be used against said Imperium.

Yeah, so Yarrick's a PC, so what of it?

As to your point about the pulse rifles, I think bringing pulse rifles to Imperials would be less dangerous than providing Imperial arms to xenos. Providing pulse rifles to human mercenaries is likely less offensive to the aims of the Imperium than providing power weapons to Kroot mercenaries (I consider this a bad idea).

llsoth said:

I don't disagree with that, I only disagree with the notion that the Rogue Trader is allowed to resell said items back into the Imperium proper legitimately. If there's a more heretical concept than the idea that an alien civilization has something that the Imperium of Man needs, I can't think of it.

My understanding was that any trading with xeno cultures is permitted solely to allow the Rogue Trader to expand his resources so that he might come back later and subjugate said Xenos and establish an Imperial colony in its place. Sort of like early American settlers trading with natives for what they need, only to violently expand their presence after they've gotten established.

In other words: The Rogue Trader is allowed to trade with xenos in order to buy the rope with which the Xenos will hang themselves.

HappyDaze:

That's the other part of it. What are you trading to these Xenos for these wares they give you? Surely they're not giving them up for free. Does the Ordos Xenos care about that? Again, it's giving aid and comfort to a potential enemy of man.

Fortinbras said:

Every ork in the galaxy knows that Yarrik kicks serious backside with that ork klaw, so the klaw must work, right?

korjik said:

Until all the Orkz are dead or he gets out of range of their WAAAGGH! field, at which point he becomes a monoplegic with a 200-pound boat anchor attached to his stump.