Charlie Kane:

Unique Ability: Connections - Any Phase: Charlie may gain Allies that have been returned to the box.

What is the difference between "returned to the box" and "discarded." Because if there is no difference then his unique ability is very broken.

Many ally cards allow you to discard them for an effect. For instance Duke allows "Discard to immediately restore your Sanity to its maximum." So you can discard him, get your sanity back and then during the next phase gain Duke from the box again.

There are others that are even worse. For instance if we use Basil Elton you are allowed to "Discard to cancel the Ancient One's entire attack for one turn." This would make defeating any GOO simple since you could just gain him back during the upkeep phase before the next attack.

So obviously "discard" and "return to box" have to be two separate things but I cant find a clarification in the rules.

Still when Charlie comes up against Atlach-Nacha he still defeats him easily as long as he has one allie because Atlach-Nacha specifically states:

"The Investigators must, as a group, choose one Ally in play or one investigator. If an Ally is chosen, it is returned to the box. If an investigator is chosen, that investigator is devoured."

What is to stop Charlie from sacrificing his ally and then gaining it back the next upkeep phase?

He can't take an Ally at will, otherwise he would complete Join the Winning Team like that (snaps fingers ). Whenever he is instructed to gain an Ally, then he can gain an Ally that has been returned to the box. Return to box is normally out of the game, discarded is bottom of the Ally deck.

Ok, that makes a lot more sense. The wording is really poor though. They should have said, "When Charlie would gain an ally he may gain Allies that have been returned to the box.'

The current wording makes it seem like he can gain them for free anytime.

Masterjts said:

Also, the allies "returned to the box" must be from the original 11 drawn at the beginning of the game.

Avi_dreader said:

+1

mentorius said:

I have no idea what that means ;')

Seriously.

Avi_dreader said:

Usually a post consisting of only "+1" means "I agree" (thus adding one person to previous post). But in this case talking about 11 allies it surely sounds as there should be 11+1 which makes absolutely no sense at all..

Masterjts said:

I think the wording is fine, but as mentioned, the REAL problem is whether you gain ANY ally, or just the 11 that you started with that were returned for some reason (say, the terror level increasing)

EcnoTheNeato said:

You can gain Allies only from the eleven in the game. The other 23 do not count. It was clarified (I think by Kevin, but I don't remember where) that the other allies do not enter the game, thus they cannot be returned to the box (technically, they never left the box; only cards in play after the setup can be returned to the box, and during the setup you have only 11 Allies)

Julia's got it. A game will only have 11 allies accessible: the other 23 have not been returned to the box; they've just not been included in the game.

If you were to say they've been returned to the box, then technically Glaaki would spit out 23 servants and awaken immediately during setup, and proceed to smash the investigators into tiny bits. And since the Dunwich expansion includes both Glaaki and 5 extra allies to warrent 5 instant "servants" every game, this cannot be the correct interpretation.

Still, it's way harsh that you have to shuffle the Ally deck without taking it out of the box. At least you get to take the lid off the box first. I guess otherwise you'd have to shake up the box real hard before setting up each game. I'd like to see them do that at GenCon. And explain why.

Also, what happens if you're playing against Glaaki and your cat knocks over the box, spilling out the other 23 allies? Do you have to put the ally cards on the counter until the game's over, or else Glaaki wins? What happens if your spouse comes by and, thinking to tidy up the living room, puts those cards back in the box without checking with you first? Is it your spouse's fault that you lost? Does that mean that he (or she) is secretly a cultist of Glaaki?

avec said:
What happens if your spouse comes by and, thinking to tidy up the living room, puts those cards back in the box without checking with you first? Is it your spouse's fault that you lost?

Don't be ridiculous. Of course not.

avec said:
Does that mean that he (or she) is secretly a cultist of Glaaki?

Don't be ridiculous. Of course she is.

She was de-clawed, and that is one of the most abhorrent things you can do to a follower of the spiked horror...

Taurmindo said:

No, it makes sense :') it means he agrees 12 times. Very agreeable of him, really.

While we're on the subject, anyone think that Charlie Kane kinda looks like the Mayor in Whoville from the new(est) How the Grinch Stole Christmas movie? You know, Mayor Maywho?

Avi_dreader said:

jjajajaja.... thumbs up! ... I agree! ... +1!

it's all the same thing... but in this particular case was not the best choice.