Just for comparitive purposes, our group plays a lot of games and we used to keep records of wins and losses. The Priest has never won and never come close in our group. That said, we use the 40 new characters I created (available at TalismanIsland), so each character is played infrequently.

Still, the Warrior, Elf, Dwarf, and Wizard account for about half of all victories, even with around 60 characters in the mix, suggesting they're advantageous in some ways (let's not start in on the Elf, his victories in 2-3 player games speak for themselves and he's got his own thread). Again, we've played well over 60 games now (I stopped keeping track for a while) and the Priest has never survived past the first 20 rounds of play, let alone winning. Here's our scoresheet.

1. Archon/6/Dwarf
2. Brights'/5/Warrior
3. University/2/Elf
4. University/2/Ghoul
5. Brights'/4/Warrior
6. Brights'/4/Thief
7. Brights'/4/Sorceress and Warrior standoff (Poltergeist+Healer)
8. Brights'/2/Troll
9. Brights'/3/Dwarf
10. Washington/5/Warrior
11. Duffy's/3/Minstrel
12. Duffy's/3/Gnome
13. Bob's/4/Pixie
14. Brights'/2/Monk
15. Brights'/2/Troll
16. Brights'/3/Elf
17. Brights'/2/Warrior
18. University/2/Shaman
19. University/2/Warrior-Mage
20. Washington/2/Prophetess
21. Washington/2/Wizard
22. Washington/3/Monk
23. Brights'/3/(Unlucky Gambler+)Barbarian
24. Brights'/3/Enchantress
25. Brights'/6/Druid
26. Brights'/3/Troll
27. Duffy's/3/Dwarf [switch to revised edition, 4.5]
28. Duffy's/4/Minstrel
29. Duffy's/3/Warrior
30. Brights'/2/Drunk Farmer
31. Brights'/2/Chasm Horror
32. Brights'/2/Boatman
41. Duffy's/2/Wizard
42. Brights'/4/Riverborn Shifter
43. Brights'/3/City Doctor
44. Washington/6/Knight
45. Brights'/2/Dark Cultist

(then many many games played, DC wins about 1/2 of them, nobody kept track)

With The Dungeon
46. Brights'/2/Gypsy
47. Brights'/5/Swashbuckler

I have play a test game today with Priest vs merchant in my own.

Merchant drew the 4th adventure card, and it was a talisman.. funny

Merchant draws witch, and rolls a 2, ( use fate, and rolls 1 ( toading !

All the stuff from merchant( 2 swords, warhorse, talisman drops on te ground..

Mainwhile later, priest have a difficult time to survive, and his lives drops to 1, he lands om the city, encounters the enchantress and... TOAD !

Priest have survive the toading.

Merchant wants to land on witch again ( because of the many goodies you get there) and AGAIN.. TOAD !

priest find druid staff, draws a turn later, the enchanter, and teleports to chaper. healing all lives. Priest is back in the game !

Merchant has survive also the toading for the second time, and priest has landed on the witch again, get's a spell, and is picking all the stuff there.

somewhat later, merchant lands on the priest to use his special ability to get the talisman, but the priest has use the alchemist before the merchant has declare to use the special ability, to turn the talisman in gold, to the merchant has choose for the druid staff. It was not his intention off course..

Some turns later, the reaper landed on the priest and he rolls a 1 ! The priest dies.

I have call it a game. the end !

-

The funny thing is that both characters have not defeat any enemies to get at least 7 tropies

Because i have played it in my own, the game time was already above 2 hours i think...

So, there was 3 toadings earlier in the game... funny

No-one here has ever won with the Priest. Granted, we only started playing 4ER since this fall, and, my memories for (10 years ago? 15? 20? I forget) 2nd Edition are unreliable but the Priest was pretty much a “you lose” character. Sure, luck is luck. But if you have a handicap vs someone that has a bonus, it sucks to start 3 paces behind.

Now, having tons of home rules, we thought of correcting Priest, among others, but even we had to end home rules and go by the official rulings for the character cards. Why? A pattern we noticed.

Basically, roughly of course, character wise…

Frostmarch > Dungeon > Reaper > Basic.

Why? Because FFG want people to buy the new shiny stuff. Don’t get me wrong, they have to make money to keep making things. Makes business sense. But it stands to reason that…

Necromancer / Gladiator > Ghoul / Minstrel. (using any followers vs just 1)
Knight > Priest (Prays better, uses weapons, etc…)
Warlock > Most Casters (get 2-3 spells / turn vs get 1)
And so on.

We noticed that we would have to house rule from now until the end of the FFG run for every character, since they will all likely get bigger and better. Why? To sell the next expansion. And, personally, I’d rather they stay in business, and make us more stuff. But the sheer amount of work to home rule every other character to even out every past and present character… was too much, even for a group led by a person with my screen name.

Or, here’s another 10+ year old example from another game… Magic The Gathering. Now, I forget the expansion and spell names but…

Base Game
Red Blast (3 damage for 1 red mana) 3:1 ratio and need a specific colour of mana

Expansion-1
Big Red Blast (7 damage for 1 red and 1 colourless mana) 7:2 ratio, and more options for the second mana

Expansion-2
Artifact Blast (3 damage for 1 colourless mana) back to 3:1 but can use any mana

Expansion-3
Freebie blast (1 damage for free) infinite ratio, but, hey, it’s 1 pt free

Expansion-4
Super Freebie Blast (2 damage for free) now it’s 2 pts free

Expansion-5
And so on…

If the above was gobbledygook, just note that, every expansion, the cards got better, you got more powerful, and it made a lot of “old” card obsolete. Reason wasn’t so much game balance as it was “Buy our new expansion.” Of course, game balance wasn’t totally out the window, and a friend of mine consistently won with bread and butter Basic Cards, but, for the rest of us, newer shiny stuff beat old stuff. Again, not faulting them, but makes business sense.

So, even I have to say, we should probably “suck it up” re: Priest and old classic characters being a few steps behind the newer ones, and keep house rules to other areas. That or be ready for a lot of work. As per a pattern someone else put up…

Base Game, Card Set 1 (reaper), Corner board 1 (dungeon), Card Set 2 (frostmarch), Corner Board 2 (???), etc…

Means 3 Corner Board Expansions left and 2 Card Set Expansions left. At 4-5 characters an expansion, that’s 16-25 characters that will, through power creep, will be off the charts of any current ones. Home rules is great. 25+ home rules to keep track of that… is what made even a group like us give up.

So, as Dam mentioned around page 2 or so, if you draw a “bad” character like the Priest, and you win (because it is still possible, luck being what it is), then go for bragging rights. Otherwise, better keep a spreadsheet handy to balance out your home rules.

But that’s just me.

Biggest hit the Priest took was the change to make every weapon a Weapon keyword and then not allow the Priest to use any in battle. Old Priest at least could hope for Holy Lance/Runesword (upon align change). Monk can't use weapons, but comes with his inherit +3 in battle.

There was a game while back that the Priest could've/would've won, had not the Gladiator been in the game. Even weirder was the fact that Priest started as Warrior, who died and was reborn as Sorceress who died and was reborn as Priest, so the Priest was in fact the second replacement ! He finished with Str 15, Craft 6 and hills kills included a Giant and 2 Dragons. Sadly, with the Gladiator packing 7 Followers for +7 in battle, even Str 15 couldn't touch him.

Evil Priest won the game today ! awesome !

It was priest vs merchant. ( a rematch !

If the priest can reach the middle region, he will become a power guy !!

I will make a report soon, even if it is not fully accurate.

Velhart said:

Oddly perhaps, the Merchant packs a solid 4-8 record after 12 appearances here. That puts him level with Dark Cultist, Monk and Wizard, not too shabby company.

Solid in the sense that in a 3-player game, you get 1 win and 2+ losses (mid-game deaths count as a loss), so holding a 50% record makes you a god. Well, almost. Gladiator Ogre Chieftain and Warlock are above 50% (last two only 3 appearances so far though), Sage is at 50%, rest are all below.

The Journey of the Priest

To tell a little about my journey with the Priest.

With this character, you need a strategy to win the game. With most characters, you can walk what you want, but with the Priest, you must plan your moves with care.

In my game, the Priest stumble upon a Rune Gate, that allows him to go to the Middle Region. this was just luck.

I have also drew the Path Finder in the Middle Region, and if this will happen, then the Priest has more luck to land on the Temple.

The Temple is the space where the Priest can grow to a amazing character.

If you begin with the Priest, you must first try to buy or find a axe. sell as much objects as you can by the alchemist to get gold.

Go to the village, buy the axe, and make a raft in the woods.

As soon as you reach the Middle Region, try to land on the temple every time ! My priest has 5 + lives and tons of fate.

Here comes another trick. Tranfer all the low spirits in spells, to cast it on your opponents if possible, or use them in your own battles. Try to get as much spells as possible !

This is the way how the Priest works.

You can also ditch your objects for not drawing cards on the space, if you are in a dangerous postition.

Plan your moves with care, and then you can win in no time

Greetings,

Velhart

Velhart said:

Interesting post, but I think you assume too much with your last sentence.

I've read many times from old school players that the best way to boost the Priest is buying a free ticket to the Middle Region, then trying to land on the Temple as much as you can.

This can be an easy strategy in a 2-player game; it might be impossible in a crowded game. At least you need an Axe to build a Raft, or a Spell to Evade the Sentinel (or the Boatman+ Gold, or Water Walking, or a 6 roll at the Tavern, or to find a Raft). You have many ways to get in there, but there's no reason why the others should leave you in peace, especially if you manage to draw some good Items/Followers.

If you make it to the Middle Region, you cannot count on specific cards because other players may draw them in the Outer Region (Shrine, Flying Carpet, Poltergeist and Pathfinder may benefit you the most). Card drawing is always a risk for the Priest, with exception of Craft monsters (he has to fear almost everything else without an Armour), so no chance of visiting Hidden Valley/Oasis too often. While you try to land on the Temple, there are good chances you must land on Desert, Chasm, Black Knight or Runes spaces. You can ditch Objects on Runes if you have some, but what about other Spaces?

If you lose Lives there you can't return back to Chapel and heal for free. You have to pay at the Castle like everyone else. Maybe you won't have that much Gold with you, and in the meantime someone in the Outer Region may get annoyed by your actions (especially if you keep on casting Spells) and get inside. Then your game becomes harder if you had no time to improve a lot.

But I admit your strategy would be the one I try if I was to play with the Priest. I did it once, against my 56 years old mother (Wizard); I lost.

What I was thinking is to find a way for the Priest through the Dungeon. He doesn't have to fear the Enemy Spirits and the most dangerous foe he can find there are the Goblin Marauders with Strength 9 and the Vassal of Darkness (no Spirit but Cultist; other Cultists are pretty weak). Maybe a Priest that managed to gain 3 Strength Points somehow, Objects included, may try to storm the Dungeon and find some good Objects/Followers in it. I don't think he'll make it against Lord of Darkness, but with immunity from the dangerous Dungeon Spirits (Vampire Prince, Gate Keeper, Death Knight, Rune Dancer) he may travel quite safe while Strength based Characters cannot.

What about Tinker Imp and Priest? This nasty foe forces you to an Object before engaging into psychic combat. My question is: since the Priest may destroy him without resorting to psychic combat, is he immune from the Imp's ability? I believe that if you Evade the Imp you don't lose the Object; is it different with the Priest/Cross?

The_Warlock said:

Yeah oke,don't take it too serious, but still.... if the Priest reach the middle region, then he grows awesome.

The_Warlock said:

That's true,

This was just a practice game in my own vs the Merchant, but i did everything to try to kill the priest or make his game worse.

I still need to play a official game with somebody else.

As long as the priest is in the outer region, his game will be difficult. The player must do everything to keep him alive.

The_Warlock said:

I have not land on the desert, or on the black knight. Runes spaces are not a problem.

If you are in a dangerous position, ditch objects there.

Off course, if it happens that you draw a strong strength enemie there, then you have a problem. Try to find a way to get around it or get rid of that card as soon as possible with spells. I have not stumble upon that problem..

The_Warlock said:

You can get a lot of lives in the temple.

I have 5+ lives, and enough to survive

It was not my intention to turn to evil, but it happens by mephistopless. When it was difficult to turn to good, i have take the move to the middle region as a evil priest, and hit the temple again for more lives( if needed) ( also need a bit luck with rolling)

The_Warlock said:

There are indeed a lot pf spirits there, to gain spells, but i think it's a little dangerous for the priest.

I shall not take that risk. The outer region is already dangerous enough for him.

The_Warlock said:

Very good question.

Because the Cross or the priest abiltiy says that you can use it without resorting to psychic combat, it seems that he is immune to the Tinker Imp's ability.

The Tinker Imp steals only a object if you engage him in psychic combat, so.. i think that the cross and priest ability comes first..

In my group, ONE TIME, the priest made it to the crown of command, but was quickly followed by another character (can't remember which). The priest soon lost all his lives in combat with the opposing player.

My signature reads as it does for good reason.

Velhart said:

Didn't take it too seriously, I limit the smiles to one per post, so you must have noticed it. But Knight and Monk can do the same as the Priest, without having much to bother about Strength Enemies and other Characters. I believe the key is finding a strategy that gets the most benefit from the Priest special ability, without affecting other players' game (see below).

Velhart said:

Velhart said:

It's a risk for the Priest as it is for every Character that attempts Dungeon without being a Battle Hulk and a Gate Keeper himself. But the Outer Region isn't dangerous because of cards; the Priest has no great disadvantage in comparison to other Craft based Characters. He cannot wield Weapons, but still there's plenty of Objects/Followers to take and no Spirit to fear (Demon? Lesser Demon? Chillbane? Hah!, ok, Ice Elemental can kick your ass). What should scare him the most are other Characters, that gain an edge over him just by buying a mundane Sword.

What can the Priest do? He can't attack effectively, but still he can protect himself from most board encounters. He needs an Armor and needs to stay away from the others. The Dungeon is an idea: there are many Spirits that he can banish with no effort (and gain Spells) and a lot of Objects that give bonuses but are not Weapons! Would you search the Dungeon for Weapons? There's only Goblin Slayer and Soul Drinker as I remeber, nothing to bother about. There's the Shield of Faith, the Anointed Robe, the Oaths of Vengeance, many valuable Followers and of course the Treasures.

An Armour will protect the Priest from the Enemies that fight with Strength, at least can contain the Life loss, and he should not be troubled by Spirits. So why shouldn't he try the Dungeon early on, while the others still struggle to take down Ogres and Dragons?

I wish I could play such a game with the Priest and tell you how it goes. I lose all games with all Characters, so no problem losing another one just to give this so-called strategy a try.

The_Warlock said:

Battle Hulk offers a free Evade option, so everyone can just point and laugh at it if they want.

Bad form posting two in a row, but didn't feel like starting a new thread just for this.

ON HER 12TH ATTEMPT, THE SORCERESS FINALLY WINS!!!

This puts her record at 1-11, same as Priest (see, relevant to the thread ) and Minstrel. Swashbuckler is so far on track to join them, 1-7 after 8 games. And then we have the Leprechaun, pathetic 0-4 so far, with 3 mid-game deaths in those games (2 by Reaper no less).

Ending: Ice Queen

Sorceress vs Leprechaun vs Gladiator. Gladiator and Sorceress meet up again, latter looking for payback, former not at all happy about seeing the Sorceress. Leprechaun starts with a Strength Spell and gains an immediate boost. Sorceress follows suit, though her gain comes at the Crags. Chapel-Village edge is soon crowded with some heavy-hitters (for early characters), as Dark Denizens drops a Nightmare there, along with a Craft 5 Medusa, a Str 5 Giant Spider and a Str 4 Umbra Spider. Sorceress draws the Sword of Light, which suits the Leprechaun just fine, given his teleport ability and the fact that he is the only one who can have that Object. Following turn he draws the Ice Drake and kills it, getting another Str gain. But his triumphs prove short-lived, as the Reaper pays him a visit, 1, Fate, 1, bye-bye Leprechaun, his third death in four appearances, second Reaper death.

Perhaps fittingly, he is reborn as the Thief, much to the groans of the other characters. Not only is the Sorceress hounding the Gladiator and taking his Followers, now the Thief threatens Objects. Sorceress has the Magic Carpet, but not for long, as the Thief takes it. Thief then continues to follow the Sorceress around for the next three turns, always rolling the same for his movement. Gladiator struggles to make stat gains or keep anything he draws from the Adventure deck. He drops down to 2 Lives after the Sorceress attacks him, but manages to reach the City to heal. Combination of Pathfinder, Idol and Fountain of Wisdom make the Outer Region an enticing option, though the Fountain dries up quickly. Sorceress gets the Warhorse, which means she can now deal with many of the Str threats as well.

Thief is more than happy to bounce around the Outer Region, taking Objects here and there, looking for trophies with his Sword of Light. Gladiator then gets a two turn streak, where he draws both Elixirs and rolls a 6 on each one, gaining +2 both Str and Craft. Looking to avoid the Thief, he hits the Dungeon. Sorceress also opts to steer clear, hitting the Middle Region via Rune Gate. Gladiator gets a couple of tough calls early on, including a Lesser Demon + Nightmare combo (Craft 13) at the first Vault, but soon hits double-digits in Strength. Sorceress has been working on her Craft and is also holding the Solomon's Crown. Perhaps oddest of all as that the Thief is also making solid Craft-gains, looking more likely to challenge the Ice Queen with Craft. Sorceress then hits a bad patch, moving to the Oasis and drawing Poltergeist along with the Lake of Visions. Looking at the Quests, she decides to take one (Discard 2 Followers) and completes it there, getting a teleport to the Warlock's Cave, saving herself a life loss. She then drags her way down to the Outer Region.

Thief moves to the Middle Region with his Water Walking Spell, which the Sorceress is more than happy to take with her Spell Call. Unfortunately for her, upon hitting the Hidden Vally, she meets the Hag and loses her Followers. Hag also means she'll have to back down to the Outer Region to get rid of it. Gladiator is now starting to make his way back toward the Dungeon Entrance, looking like a challenger for the Crown. Sorceress manages to hit the Village soon enough and rids herself of the Hag, getting turned Good in the process. Seeing the Gladiator rumbling out of the Dungeon with Str 15, the Thief moves to the Inner Region, even though he can pack Craft 12 in psychic combat and has no Fate, since it is clear the Gladiator will defeat the Ice Queen if he gets to the Crown. Sorceress takes another route, seeing the Gate Keeper in the Dungeon, just 1 space from the Entrance.

Thief passes Mines and tosses his Porter and Mule at the Vampire's Tower, ditching a few Objects as well. At the Pits he defeats the first three Pit Fiends, but stand-offs against the fourth. Gladiator has by now reached the Middle Region and moves to the Plain of Peril. Sorceress lucks out greatly, rolling just the number she needed to land on the Gate Keeper, which she defeats and jumps to the Temple, trading in 14 points of Craft Enemies and putting her at Craft 14 (16 in psychic combat). Gladiator passes the Crypt, but stalls twice at the Dice with Death. Sorceress moves to the Inner Region just as the Thief defeats the final Pit Fiend. Following turn, Thief moves to the Valley of Fire which is followed by the Sorceress casting Transference and swapping places with him. Gladiator finally wins Dice with Death and Thief moves back into the Mines, but the Sorceress then moves to the Crown. Despite poor combat rolls, she still defeats the Ice Queen without any losses or stand-offs, all with the use of just 1 Fate. On her 12th attempt, the Sorceress finally wins!

Dam said:

Mmh, I think my post deserved more than this comment.

Reading the posts and trying to point out imprecisions concerning the rules is not what a forum is about.

I perfectly know that Battle Hulk can be evaded at will (if you check my thoughts about the Priest you'll know I was aware). I was trying to say that the Dungeon is a safe place if you enter it with stats that put you on the same level of a Battle Hulk and a Gate Keeper. Otherwise every time you draw cards you might find an overwhelming danger.

The_Warlock said:

Well, if you're packing Str/Craft 10 and the ending isn't Ice Queen, Middle/Inner Region is where you'll probably find most characters here. Generally people hit the Dungeon with around 7 in combat for stats. There are a few stronger Enemies to worry about (and multiple draw spaces), but generally you should do fine. If they don't hit the Dungeon around that time, it's probably too late to go there afterwards, someone will hit the Crown by the time you come out of there again. Ice Queen ending games have all seen Dungeon action, as that is THE spot for gaining trophies fast and you need to beef up for the ending. Hitters (Str-chars) packing Armour can usually survive fine, Brains (Craft-chars) hopefully will pack or cycle spells that will help them.

For the Priest, one of the most sought after Dungeon cards might the Gauntlets of Might (IIRC that's the name), +2 to Str in battle, but no Weapon keyword. Of course, everyone loves those. Oaths of Vengeance drawn early in the Dungeon (or during Dark Denizens) tends to shift the balance of the Dungeon in the character's favour.