When a Myphos card with a gate burst is drawn and there is no elder sign in the location you open a gate and place a monster as usual. Additionally, whenever a gate burst is drawn, all flying monsters move.

Am l right in thinking all flying monsters move if a gate bursts open or not.

That's correct. The fact that the Mythos card was a "gate burst" type card causes all flying monsters to move, regardless of what the gate actually did, or if a gate even opened at all.

Tibs said:

Am I right in assuming that against Atlach-Nacha, flying monsters move every turn since every gate opening is treated as a gate burst? I've recently been wondering if I'd played that correctly so far.

jhaelen said:

Yes, you're right. They move almost every round, unless you draw double doomers or double terror Mythos card

Julia said:

They probably just wanted to keep it simple, so they said "All gate openings count as gate bursts" instead of "All Gates openings count as Gate Bursts, but flyers don't automatically move unless their symbol is also drawn with the correlating Mythos card"

Side-note: Do "A Gate Appears!" count as bursting the seal? It says gate openings, so does that only work with Mythos cards, or does that work with encounter cards, too?

Nobody knows if encounter gates are also bursts, but I'd say they are. Whether or not you then move all flying monsters is your prerogative.

Tibs said:

I'm with Tibs ont his issue. After all, the Power ability says that "all gate openings are gate bursts", and all is different from all gates openings on Mythos cards; considering the fact that gate openings as result of encounters do add doomers and are considered "normal" gate openings under all points of view (for Patrice's Ominous dreams and Diana's Dark insight for example), I'd say they are gate bursts, and make all flyers move. But this is just my interpretation of it, of course

Now that I think about it, maybe flying monsters shouldn't move. The rationale is that the rules say that flying monsters move when a gate burst card is drawn, but when the gate opens because of an encounter, no such card has been drawn. Since this is outside of normal flying monster movement anyway, then it's a comfortable position to take.

Tibs said:

Ehhh... Please don't open this can of worms ;')

Tibs said:

Shouldn't this dequalify what previously said about Atlach? I mean, all gate openings are treated as gate bursts, but not every Mythos card is a gate burst card. So, if the key is the "gate burst card" thing, then flyers should have an additional movement only when a "normal" gate burst happens; if the triggering effect is the fact that something bursted, then they should move even during the movement phase. Or not?

With Atlach-Nacha, every Mythos card (with a gate) is a gate burst card. But a location encounter card is not. The trigger for flying monsters is literally drawing a Mythos card that is a gate burst. With A-N, this is almost all of them.

Tibs said:

I take your point, but the main problem (mine, at least) is that nothing on Atlach sheet saying that his ability affects only Mythos cards: "While Atlach-Nacha stirs in his slumber, all gate openings are gate bursts". Thus, I think that every time a gate opens, regardless of the phase, that gate is a burst, thus Flyers move. In case you need a gate burst card to be drawn to move them, then "normal" Mythos cards shouldn't affect them neither, since they are "normal" cards, the gate bursts only because of Atlach's power. Don't know whether I've been able to express myself better :-)

According to the rules, "Additionally, whenever a gate burst is drawn, all flying monsters move, regardless of their dimensional symbol" (DH, p. 6). So I guess the question is, with Atlach-Nacha, does drawing a location card that reads "A gate and a monster appear!" count as drawing a gate burst?

You draw a gate opening, which counts as a gate burst, so... probably. The only exception I can think of is if an extremely misguided investigator used the Naacal Key to open a gate on a location with a seal. The gate opening would count as a gate burst, but no card was drawn, so flying monsters would not move in that case.

To clarify, Naacal Key can only be used in an unstable location correct? Or is it possible to stand in the Asylum, then suck yourself inside a gate?

mi-go hunter said:

There is nothing stopping you from using the Naacal Key while at the Asylum. The main problem with this, is that gate at stable locations or in street areas cannot be sealed, thus is pretty a useless strategy opening a gate at a stable location

avec said:

Yep, that's the point

The Naacal Key should only be used as a coaster. And it's too small to make a good one.

mi-go hunter said:

You can use it anywhere. Not sure why you'd want to (I think it's Julia's least favorite item), but hey, it might have a random use somewhere!

And to contribute, I'd say "no" to flying monsters moving. It seems more tied to a Mythos card than the gate, possibly tied to the monster movement part of the Mythos card. If doing it in order, you'd open the gate THEN have flying monsters move at the same time as all the other monsters, wouldn't you? I'd say yes, not before or after. So that's what makes me lean on the side of it being tied to monster movement instead of the actual act of a gate (burst) opening.

Afterall, you still move flying monsters when one is drawn on Kate Winthrop, rihgt? She prevents the Gate Burst, but not the movement of monsters.

And that, folks, is my reasoning :-D

avec said:

Shot-glass coaster?

EcnoTheNeato said:

Maybe for the first couple of shots. After that I'd have a hard time finding it.

avec said:

This wins comment of the day, I think.

EcnoTheNeato said:

Yes, you're right about being the Naacal Key my least fave item of all times, but indeed, it can be useful, in case you have to pass Mistrust or Cursed relics rumors ::laughing::

Julia said:

HOLY HELL! I just thought of a use for Naacal Key! Post-Lurker you can use it to deliberately devour a useless investigator (after being stripped of all items and cash) by searching for the R'lyeh gate (obviously, you'd want to use the item on a high frequency gate location so the price of using it is likely to be a surge at worst).

I still dislike Naacal Key :'/

Or devour another investigator who's really making you angry! "You better hope I don't catch you..."