So when the game first came out I quickly followed the advice of many folks on the forum and axed RF rules to what they've been eratted to. In the knee jerk reaction to the massife RF damage, I also nixed the Deathwatch training auto-confirmation.

Now that people have played for a while, I thought I'd check and see whic method you folks were using? I was getting ready to 'reinstate' the auto confirmation because sanity was restored to the system - how is it playing out for you all?

Next question is in the Emperor Protects, we get an intro to the Necrons; would Deathwatch Training apply to Necrons? To me, the fluff indicates DW training is due to the fact that the DW just know so much about all these different xenos races, right? So when a group of marines comes across something they've never encountered before, it seems like they'd not get this ability. It also seems like an interesting way to heighten the tension and reinforce the unknown nature of the neemy they face.

I just kind of wanted to get a feel from others here; I'm going tor theme and mood, not truly mechanics, but if the majority opinion is that it feals cheap or unwarranted my players will probably feel that way too, meaning I probably shouldn't do it

Charmander said:

Well, I use the "multiple-dice RF", not the single-dice. I do so because it has more dramatic potential with damage being able to go to epic proportions. If you can one-shot a Tyranid Prime with some really, really, really good rolls - why not? Auto confirmation is just fine; it's not so much a big deal with Marines anyway, especially shooty marines. It punishes more close combat.

Not counting DW Training against Necrons is an excellent thought. It conveys the danger that these new xenos pose. Normally I would rule differently if the DW encountered just some new xeno race (the data of countless exterminated races going into the training). But Necrons... okay. I can see that. They should be new and scary to the PCs.

What I am personally still puzzling over instead is the damage output overall of the high ROF weapons. Righteous Fury is sane again, yes, and therefore not so much of a problem unless we are talking about Blood Frenzy at Rank 7+ perhaps. The real damage potential is high ROF because ROF is a potential multiplier. Therefore if even a few damage points penetrate the soak of Master-class enemies, the HB in particular will be able to compete with other heavy weapons. And outclass them against hordes. Maybe I'll take off another damage point off of bolt weapons. But not to derail your topic.

Alex

One could easily argue that the auto RF against xenos has little to do with studying them (after all, Asartes get no free skills to reflect such knowledge...) and more to do with instilled hatred for the Xenos, faith in the purity of mankind, the catechisms intoned and the sigils of purity and hatred embossed on their weaponry.

Siranui said:

Possibly. They do get Forbidden Lore (Xenos) though when entering the DW. Page 36.

Alex

We are using the 1 dice RF that can continue to explode (but only on natural 10s after initial explosion). We stopped it because we were more frightened of having that same type of damage come back to the player when we encountered a mob with Touched by the Fates. New errata Tau Commander anyone?

Im with Siranui on the auto confirm. I have always attributed it to the pure hatred of the xenos and mankinds manifest right to rule the galaxy. The marines that ask for a DW post or are sent there are because of some overwhelming need or aptitude for killing xenos.

Charmander said:

Lucrosium Malice said:

I do kind of like the interpretation that the auto confirmation being based on you just being extra zealous, though to me the fact that it is "Deathwatch Training" and not "Zeal of the Xenos-Hunter" or something makes me personally lean the other way. Though it's super cool to get the different opinions and feelings on it, it says if nothing else that I'll probably have a lack of consensus in my group as well.

Thanks folks.

For me Deathwatch Training would still effect combat with Necrons due to the fact they may not have much experience fighting them specifically (or maybe they do) but more that they have experience fighting many different types of xenos throughout their career and would have learned to be adaptable when fighting them due to their knowledge, therefore would figureout how to best defeat any xenos quickly.

muzzyman1981 said:

I like the general sentiment of this, but I think I like Alex's a bit more- in that you get this ability with most xenos, familiar or not, but with certain xenos, specifically something that's supposed to be as scary as Necrons, it seems to make thematic sense to prohibit it, at least for a while. I would think the same would have applied to Tyrannids when they first appeared, but since they're old news now the DW has leanred how that class of enemy operates.

Maybe I'm just looking for a way to make them more mysterious and frigtening, something to make them stand out from the other 'new' xenos the team may come across.

Charmander said:

Don't forget that the majority of xeno races the DW face are mooks. In fact I think part of the job is as an Advisor for the Imperial Guard how to best root out a xeno race on a given planet. The highlights of the job are fighting the xenos who have their own codex. These are the most difficult.

And yes first contact with the necrons should be spooky.

Alex

Thinking of the implications, I envisage that create GMs will use a LOT of 'unwritten' xenos races, on a fairly regular basis (I know I will). It seems harsh to be depriving the party of the DW training ability during many missions, which is party why I support the 'always works' idea.

Although the talent is called 'Deathwatch Training' there is not reason that 'training' has to specifically be learning specific foe's weaknesses: It could just as easily be training in hating them more.

Part of the joy of 40k is the illogic of some things and the mystical side of things. Machines sometimes really don't work unless you appease their spirits, for example. To our minds the 'logical' way that the talent works is indeed because the Marine knows just where to shoot orcs to make them die. But in the 40k universe it's more internally logical that it's due to faith, coupled with purity in hatred and purpose. It's just in keeping with the universe, which is why I favour the solution. YMM-obviously-Vary.

Siranui said:

We're not disputing that. But that will be first contact with minor xeno races. First contact with a major xeno race, that is a once in a lifetime opportunity (a statement that can be read at least two ways).

Alex

ak-73 said:

Ya, Alex sums it up for me. I agree that taking the skill away form players all the time would get old, just like over-usng anything else.

But if you take it out of action 1 or 2 times in a campaign, it puts a huge punctuation mark on the importance of the enemy. Given that auto-confirming a single roll (which is likely to be confirmed in most cases anyhow given the high abilities of DW Marines) isn't that much of a hinderance, but it's a huge narrative chunk. Those that don't know the codexes (or Marines not metagaming) will wonder if they're xenos, f they're constructs/robots, etc.- they won't know what they're fighting at first, as they shouldn't.