Hi there,

A few questions about dupes:

1/ Is it possible to put into play dupes Out of the marshalling phase, due to their Response/ability, for example May I put into play Core Khal or LoW Catelyn and their dupes, as part of their response ?

2/ During plot phase and Valar revealed, may i put into play a dupe on Darkstar, as a result of Maester of the sun ability in summer, and discard the dupe to save DS from being killed ?

thank you all

Kordovan said:

Kordovan said:

Thanks but sorry.. not clear enough.

"A copy of a card that you already have in play", does it mean that i played during marshalling (first copy) and add the dupe with the "put into play" ability.

Or may I trigger the response of LoW CATelyn during challenge, and right after that put a dupe on her??

I thought the rules mentionned that we could only play dupes for free during Marshalliing phase?! but I don't remember where exactly...

Can you quote an entry of the rules/FAQ where it is refering to ?

Thanks again and sorry for my insistence, but we try as possible to play well.

Kordovan said:

In order to put a dupe on a unique card, a copy of that card must already be in play. It doesn't matter how that first copy gets put into play, though. After all, it's not like the game keeps track of when a card comes into play under normal circumstances.

As for getting the dupe into play outside of Marshaling, you're going to need some "put into play" effect because otherwise, you have no rule or effect allowing you to play the character card (or whatever) from your hand (or wherever).

Kordovan said:

To nitpick a little here, LoW-Catelyn is a "Challenges" effect, not a "Response." But yes, you could put her into play with her effect, then put a dupe of her into play. However, note that you are using the "put into play" effect on the second copy of Catelyn to get it out of your hand - which then enters play as a duplicate because you already have another copy of Catelyn in play when you trigger it. You are not using the rules that allow you to play a duplicate. You could not, for example, use LoW-Catelyn's ability to put her into play during the Challenge phase, then immediately dupe her with a copy of the Core Set Catelyn because you have no rule or card effect allowing you to use the CS-Catelyn card from your hand.

Kordovan said:

Correct. You can only play dupes for free during the Marshaling phase. That is why you need some sort of "put into play" effect - just like you need some sort of "put into play" effect in order to get a normal character, location or attachment into play outside of the Marshaling phase.

So, for example, if you bring Tyrion out of Shadows in the Challenge phase, you cannot just throw another copy of him into play as a dupe from your hand because the character came into play. There is no game effect or rule that allow you to "dupe at will" outside of the Marshaling phase. But if you bring a copy of Tyrion out of Shadows (and into play) by paying the rest of the Shadow cost at the beginning of the Challenge phase - while there is already a copy of him in play - then the second copy will enter play as a dupe on the first. This is simply how "put into play" effects work with multiple copies of unique cards.

Kordovan said:

It has never been said outright that "if you have copy #1 of a unique card in play and use a 'put into play' effect on copy #2 of that same unique card, copy #2 will enter play as a dupe on copy #1." However, all the rules for unique cards say "except for duplicates."

Also, the conclusion can be made from the CCG plot card "Reinforcements," which has the text:

"When revealed, you may choose a character with cost 3 or lower from your discard pile, and put it into play at no cost."

And the FAQ clarification:

"Reinforcements should read: 'When revealed, you may choose a character with a printed cost of 3 or lower from your discard pile, and put it into play.' Therefore you may not reinforce duplicates of cost 4 or higher, but you may reinforce characters of opposing Houses without any gold penalty."

This very clearly established the principle for using "put into play" effects to duplicate unique cards.

Ok. Loud and clear this time.

Thank you Ktom.

Last question concerning "put into play" dupes:

For Core Khal and LoW Cat, they must come back in hand when the challenge phase ends, so what about the dupe. Does it come back in hand the same way, or is it discarded.

Kordovan said:

Keep in mind that since you are not allowed to use Response effects during the "end of phase" window, you would not be able to use the dupe to save the characters from being returned to hand, either.

If you have two copies in hand during the Challenges phase, the only reason to put both into play (creating the dupe) would be if you expected the character to die before the end of the phase (such as jumping Cat in as a defender for a Deadly challenge).

What then about killing the character because the dupe (another unique card which has other powers but the same name) is now more attractive than the one it dupes.

Can I do that, the rules say you 'may chosse to kill or discard' the dupe instead. So what happens if I want to keep the dupe and get rid of the original card?

You mean killing the character so as to leave the dupe in play as a character? You cannot do that. You can whether discard a duplicate in order to save the character or actually kill the character, in which case the dupes will go to the discard pile.

eloooooooi said:

Thanks, it is as usual, I hope for the best expecting the worst and that is exactly what I get.

So you have to be very careful which card of the character you put into play

Gernerally you are not going to put 2 different versions of the same character in your deck. It is better to put 2 copies of 1 version of the character.

Darksbane said:

Keep in mind that these duplicate and unique rules apply by card title, regardless of the card type. So if you put a copy of both the character and the attachment Grey Wind into your deck, the two cards can dupe each other, but you cannot have both in play (1 as the character, the other as the attachment). That's a situation where you'll have to be very careful of which one you play first.