The latest rule states that if you shuffle twice your deck in a level you eject the players. Even though that works fine for normal levels and even some small rumors that becomes impossible in situations like copper and silver legendary level. Has anyone else feel that? Not to mention we have reached the conclusion that if he is close to shuffle you must wait on the 3rd level to shuffle it so you can get 2 full shuffles on the legendary level. I find it weird since we are really good a dungeon levels and most times clear 3 full levels without the OL EVER shuffling his deck even with evil genius down in the game early. And it is stupid that you will get ejected from the dungeon when the OL shuffled 2 times his deck in 4 WHOLE levels just because it happened to be the last. I understand that the previous ruling was 5 shuffles for a legendary area 4 for a rumor and 3 for a normal 3 level dungeon correct? What made them change it? I mean if you are slow and give him many shuffles you are probably going to be hurting anyway as he plays more treachery cards and gets 3 CT everytime why make the big rumors and the legendary levels a race against the clock?

Thanks for any feedback on this.

The rule is there to prevent heroes from forcing an early final fight by hanging out in town while the overlord repeatedly cycles his deck and gains conquest. If your group doesn't try that and thinks the ejection rule is unfair, feel free to ignore it.

Okay that is quite funny i think since i would have never thought that. So you are telling me when the you reach gold and have enough power to deak with the avatar you do that in order to force a final battle? Okay i can deal with that but why change it from 5 shuffles or even 3 that were for a normal dungeon to 2 shuffles in a single level? I find it weird and it clearly doesn't make sense any other explanation?

I don't know of anyone who actually does it, but it must have been a problem at some point since they invented a rule to stop it from happening. I also have no idea why they changed the rule. Presumably people were bumping up against the 3-5 limit without trying to force a final fight and they thought 2 in one level was a better indicator that the heroes were cheesing the system.

Also, the rule doesn't actually prevent the heroes from forcing the final fight. If they wanted they could just kill each other over and over and over again. With gold weapons, battle actions, and unequipped armor it should be pretty easy to kill each other. If you time it right the hero that just died can spend 1 fatigue to leave town on his turn and battle to kill the next person in line. Last you have the mage pop out and blast everyone (including himself). That's at least 7 conquest and probably a lot more every hero turn, so forcing a final fight before the deck flips twice shouldn't be too terribly difficult.

Drglord said:

To the best of my knowledge there has never been a limit on the number of times the OL could shuffle his deck prior to the introduction of this rule to close the loophole James mentioned. I just did a quick search of the RtL pdf and couldn't find any mention of such a limit, either.

It is true that in Vanilla the heroes would eventually flat out lose if the OL reshuffled often enough (and 5 cycles sounds about right, factoring in some CT gain from chests and glyphs and stuff.) But that's still not a hard limit, just an average.

They added a hard limit because otherwise there was none. Of course, it only matters if your group is the kind who would try to cheese the system like that, so most reasonable groups just ignore it as long as everyone is playing fair.