When I spend Martial Knowledge to acquire Techniques and Ki abilities do I lose them?

You "spend" them, so basically yes, you lose them. In the character sheet, there is a section for your total MK that you have, AND the amount you have spent.

So if your character has 80 MK, then he would "spend" 40 MK to learn Use of Ki (or whatever the starting one was) or others like Presence Extrusion, and likewise would "spend" this MK to gain techniques.

Hopefully that clarifies it a bit.

Thank you very much!!!

I have another question:For a character to become a Wizard is it necessary to purchase the Advantage with the title The Gift?

As things are now the answer is YES, although you might (for some very odd reason) decide to use the Wizard "chassis" to make a non-magical "intellectual styled" class. I'd advice against it, by the way, since you can obtain far better results using the Freelancer or even the Summoner "chassis" for that purpose.

That said, I've read that a new Anima expansion which is still unpublished in english (only spanish), "Arcana Exxet: Los Secretos de lo Sobrenatural" ("Arcana Exxet: Secrets of the Supernatural") features rules for casting ritual magic for people without The Gift. My guess is that using those rules you might be able to create Wizards without The Gift...but since I haven't gotten my hand on the book yet (**** buying on Internet with all those stupidy security rules that make buying stuff with you credit card almost impossible nowadays!), I can't tell you for sure. Besides, FFG has still to publish two other Anima Rulebooks before Arcana Exxet, so my guess we won't be seing it out in english for a very long while, if ever. Really unfortunate, since the all publications for this game are really good on my opinion.

It is significant to note that almost all supernatural characters need to start off the game with an advantage. Wizards need the gift, psychics need to take an advantage to give them access to some or all psycic disiciplins, Even fighters who want to use ki techniques should really take the Martial Knowledge advantages or they really can not start with any techniques.

The only characters with supernatural abilites that don't need one advantage or another is summoner. And there is some debate on that as well

What debate? I believe the core book explicitly states that summoning doesn't require at all having the Gift...

Yes that is what I thought. But when I said that you didn't need the gift to be a summoner, all sorts of people came out of the woodwork telling me how wrong I was.

Both summoners in the pre-built charactersection of the GM's guild do have the gift.

Well...I guess by BG "most" summoners have the Gift...the matter is that if you have an innate ability to use magic, it's only normal that you get closer to the Occult and hence become a summoner. Besides, Summoners with the gift have a wide range of benefits in terms of access to Zeon regeneration abilities (and more from the GM toolkit). Nevertheless I believe somehow all beings have a Zeon reserve, it's just that most people's Zeon is "blocked" and they can access it only by Rituals. If you consider that it's even possible to cast magic without having the Gift (new rules...but still something guys in Gaia are able to do), it's only normal that anyone can be a Summoner. By the way...it's not entirely related to the matter, but "Dominus Exxet: Los Dominios del Ki", another rulebook still unprinted in english, features rules to make summonings using Ki. They are quite interesting. Since summoners receive so few Martial Mastery each level and developing ki techniques would be impossible to them, perhaps learning the rituals for "Ki Summoning" would be a better investment for them, as a last resource if they find themselves out of Zeon.

Actually, the main reason that Summoners take the Gift is so that they'll be able to increase their Magic Accumulation. It's true that Summoners don't have to Accumulate for their summons, but your Zeon recovery is based on your MA, and if you don't have the Gift you can't improve your MA.

Note: An optional rule from somewhere , I believe Arcana Exxet, allows characters to take Magic Recovery multiples. These work just like Magic Accumulation multiples, except that they only apply to your rate of recovery, they don't help you Accumulate. IIRC, they cost half the normal price for multiples and can be taken by the non-Gifted.

Wait, your not allowed to buy up you zeon accumulation without the gift. I totally missed that. I thought you just couldn't cast spells without the gift.

Same here, I entirely missed you cannot buy MA if you don't have the gift...Actually my player's summoner bought an Accumulation Multiple when he rolled his character despite being a gift-less summoner...now that I have Arcana Exxet, of course he prefers to spend half DP to buy the Regeneration Multiple...although he actually uses his MA, since he's got high Elan with Erebus and can cast free access spells "gifted" by the Shajad.

Actually I also allow the summoner to buy some "Gift-Only" advantages, like the Superior Magic Recovery and the Magic Nature. After all one might have strong "Magic" power in his nature but still be unable to see and manipulate it to produce spells...

I like summoners are not necessarily mages (even the Order of Yehudah has some respect for particularly powerful summoners, despite lacking the Gift) so I prefer to give them the possibility to match mages in zeon-mastery, especially considering that Invocations, Incarnation and Sheele evocations (wait for Arcana Exxet for more details) all cost an amazing amount of Zeon.

My two cents.

You're not alone in this, and a number of the Gift Advantages are fairly picky.

And looking back at it, no, the issue isn't that MA can't be taken by the non-Gifted. You are correct, they can. The issue is that they are freaking expensive for what they give you if you aren't Gifted. My bad for the misquote.

Arcana Exxet will probably provide a lot of guidance on spellcasters. Some of the optional rules I already know about from Dominus Exxet are rather nice (a system for buying, in a limited sense, MK with DP, for instance).

Does taking the Gift advantage lower the cost of MA. I thought that was determined by your class.

Taking the Gift doesn't lower the cost of MA, but a character with the need HAS an actual need for MA (casts spells quickly AND recovers zeon quickly) while a character without the Gift (a Summoner, usually, but I guess also very mystical-based Paladins/Dark Paladins) pay that huge amount of DP ONLY to gain the Zeon Regeneration. That's why Arcana Exxet introduced the opportunity to buy Zeonic Regeneration for half price. It is still an interesting options for wizards who don't intend to waste all their level-up on MA and it's a great option for summoners/warrior summoners/paladins/dark paladins who need Zeon to fuel their summoning abilities, but don't need to accumulate it to cast spells.

Even an absolutely non-mystical character might consider buy a Familiar and fuel it by zeonic regeneration as it progresses as things stand now. Previously it would have been absolutely unconvenient for a non-Mystical character.

Shelees are still too costly...I must seriously make a few calculation to see if they can be played as they are or they need some serious home-ruling...

Elric, you have just given me an idea for Summoners, that has just unfolded to the size of a minor game expansion.

I'm really happy to hear my post was useful for someone...by the way...wasn't this topic about Martial Knowledge?

Just to return in topic:

Dominus Exxet, the upcominc expansion, offers a really interesting option for having more Martial Knowledge. Basically you may buy Martial Knowledge by spending DP (5MK for 5DP) with the following restrinctions:

1) DP spent on MK are subtracted from the amount you may spend on Combat Primary Abilities.

2) A character cannot spend more than 1/10 of his total DP on MK (a Level 1 Character may spend up to 60DP on it, for example).

I believe this is very interesting since it helps classes with lower MK gain to achieve at least control of a few abilities within the first levels, if not techniques.

The upcoming expansion will also feature a few new interesting ways of spending MK, especially for characters with low MK levels or who don't get any use in Ki abilities. For example there are rules for Summoning by use of Ki...but I won't spoiler more.

I'm not sure I like this, becasue as I state earlier, if you want to start with magic, or psychic abilities you need to buy an advantage to get it. If you want to use ki techniques at first level you need to do the same thing. I am worried that as character gain levels their MK could get out.

Nah, a weapon-master couldn't receive more than 20MK per level anyway after first level...wich is pretty low anyway, and insufficient to build an efficient Ki user. If you want a real Ki (well...or Nemesis...) user you must anyway start with a Class allowing it and a few points of Martial Mastery. Besides, points given to MK are subtracted from combat abilities. Even building an amazing Ki user, if his base Attack/Defense are low, he'll be in trouble any time his ki runs out. This rule just allows characters to buy a few abilities more.

But the whole point of a weapon master is that they are good at fighting and not good and ki. If you want to be better at ki, play a fighter. They don't start out with much, but it does add up. And if you buy MK with your CP you have plenty to start with a few techniques.

Like I said before a wizard and a psychic need to start with advantages to use their supernatural powers, I feel like it is balanced if Ki users do too.

I agree, Weaponmaster is special because of his endless lifepoints.

Whatever...I just gave you the imput (coming from Domins Exxet, by the way), you're free to use it (or not) as you like.

Personally I believe the Weapon Master may need just a few MK, that sufficient to buy few Ki (and/or) nemesis abilities, not technique. For example Weapon Master definitely need something that allows them to hurt incorporeal beings and Inhumanity and Zen are going to become a issue with time. Also, Ars Magnus (featured in Dominus Exxet) are somewhat a more powerful version of fighting modules, so again something a Weapon Master should be allowed to achieve, on my opinion. Anyway, there's no way to compare MK allowance for a Weapon Master (70 at 1st, than 20 per level), a Warrior (85 at 1st, than 35 per level) and a Technician (110 at 1st, then 60 per level). It's not 10MK per level that really makes the difference...

If you want to use Ki Techniques you still have to buy Martial Mastery AND have a class that allows you to build-up enough MK per level.

Without any Martial Mastery, a technician may begin the game with just 110 MK like this...and at the cost of -15 to his Attack AND Defense. I'd still get Martial Mastery, really.

The fact that buying MK subtracts points for fighting skills is crippling enough for most fighting classes, who can't afford loosing ground in the Attack/Defense compartment. Or so I believe, at least.

Everything IMHO.

I understand what are you saying, Ki abilities are good for Weaponmaster, Ki tecnique still cost too much for him.

Yeah, you can't really make a Weapon Master ki user...or at least, the result would be quite disappointing compared to building a Technician or even Warrior Ki User of same level.

The Weapon Master is STILL far better at tanking than anything else. Giving him little more MK allowance just allows him to acquire a few abilities that allow him to stand his ground against equal level "supernatural" characters.