jhaelen said:
Time to dig out Yibb-Tstll 
and watch Patrice weep?
Dam said:
Time to dig out Yibb-Tstll and watch Patrice weep?
A couple of months ago I had Patrice with something like 27 or 28 clues being forced into the Underworld by a gate suddently appeared at the Unnamable; the first OW encounter said "discard all your clues; you can reduce this loss by paying 1 sanity AND 1 stamina for each clue token you wish to keep". Patrice was a messy sob.
You can't have starting equipment that adds up to the same value when most starting equipment is chosen randomly. This means that someone that starts with a Tommygun or other high priced common item is going to make out better (on average) than someone who is supposed to draw 2 random common items.
I'll just reiterate that I'm surprised this is much of an issue because it just seems obvious to me that the Innsmouth people have more abilities without (for the most part) having any kind of major drawbacks to balance it out. But if people think Amanda Sharpe and some of her friends from the base game are the equivalent of the Innsmouth folks, then so be it.
jhaelen said:
jscott991 said:
Some base game investigators that I've never used are quite terrible. And you look at a few's items, stats, and esoteric power and wonder why you'd ever choose them over investigator X with a better inventory, better stats, and a more useful power.
Well, the thing is: Normally you don't choose, you draw the investigator randomly. So it's just like everything in Arkham Horror: There's a high degree of randomness.
The only investigator I feel is overpowered is Patrice. Her ability should really limited to be only usable once per turn, or something. Also she doesn't really need the extra boost of five clue markers. In a recent game she accumulated 24 clue markers at one point. That's nuts!
The rules allow you to choose your investigator, starting with the first player and continuing clockwise. I'm sure everyone has different tastes in this regard and I don't know that a debate on which alternate method is preferred would be very fruitful.
jscott991 said:
You can't have starting equipment that adds up to the same value when most starting equipment is chosen randomly. This means that someone that starts with a Tommygun or other high priced common item is going to make out better (on average) than someone who is supposed to draw 2 random common items.
They do all tally up to the same total, $25 IIRC. There is a formula somewhere for it. If you get it fixed, it "costs" you the buy value (I think, not 100%), but if you get random, then Commons have a certain $ value, Uniques and Spells have their own $ value, same for Clues, Specials, etc. So the amount is the same, after that it's luck of the draw.
Aye. So you may end up with a Knife, or you may end up with a Carbine Rifle. It's all about luck!
And yes, you can pick your investigators, but once you start winning the game consistently, it gets fun to randomly determine your player so that you experience something different! And...I dunno that anyone would say that Amanda is as good as the best Innsmouth investigator...Though Joe Diamond, Mandy, Ashcan Pete, and even Kate Withrop are able to "hold their own" as the original 16 vs. the Innsmouth 16. Just...don't ask about Sister Mary. YOu'll get overly mixed reviews!
I always liked Sister Mary,(I get lucky with her on the team) and she got a considerable boon with her personal story. I'm not really a fan of Kate, though she can be quite useful on occasion. but her special ability is highly situational. Though when paired with the Arcane Insight spell, she's a game breaker.
zealot12 said:
I always liked Sister Mary,(I get lucky with her on the team) and she got a considerable boon with her personal story. I'm not really a fan of Kate, though she can be quite useful on occasion. but her special ability is highly situational. Though when paired with the Arcane Insight spell, she's a game breaker.
Same here with Sister Mary. I like her. For some reason she ALWAYS seems to get the Dread Curse of Azathoth as a spell in the game, and Vincent ALWAYS gets the Shotgun eventually...But anyway...
I mostly like Kate because she's great to move around the board to the popular gate locations to collect clues (not worrying about a gate dropping on her), and may act as a "seal" for a turn if you get lucky. And once she's finished, she can head right into the Other World, not really needing any weapons. Why? Because Monsters can't appear on her suddenly, that's why! Her one big downside for me is her low Focus. It makes me a sad panda. Other than that I think she's just swell!
IF I had to pick a least favorite (from Base game), I'd go with Amanda. Though the new Skills can be pretty nifty. It's really luck of the draw with her. Too bad she's too poor, or she'd be able to have a few encounters to get some money and be able to buy another skill! Though, at least she starts out at the bank...But her personal story is very nice, so that balances her out, too (not to mention I love the thought of her and Silas Marsh shedding their skin and becoming monsters...). Or perhaps Marie from Dunwich (since that's the only big box I have) because her Lore could really use some help with a Lore-based skill card, otherwise she's not that fantasmical as a spell caster.
...and while she starts at the Bank, you know that students are just not that reliable when it comes to paying-off student loans...of course, there are more important things going on in Arkham than Amanda's possible credit rating problem . . . so that loan doesn't look too bad now does it?
EcnoTheNeato said:
Though Joe Diamond, Mandy, Ashcan Pete, and even Kate Withrop are able to "hold their own" as the original 16 vs. the Innsmouth 16. Just...don't ask about Sister Mary. YOu'll get overly mixed reviews!
Very true. Not to mention that Kate being the Deputy (or having the patrol wagon) + Arcane Insight is a combo able to beat almost every game
Julia said:
EcnoTheNeato said:
Though Joe Diamond, Mandy, Ashcan Pete, and even Kate Withrop are able to "hold their own" as the original 16 vs. the Innsmouth 16. Just...don't ask about Sister Mary. YOu'll get overly mixed reviews!
Very true. Not to mention that Kate being the Deputy (or having the patrol wagon) + Arcane Insight is a combo able to beat almost every game
Sorry, didn't see Zealot post
Julia said:
EcnoTheNeato said:
Though Joe Diamond, Mandy, Ashcan Pete, and even Kate Withrop are able to "hold their own" as the original 16 vs. the Innsmouth 16. Just...don't ask about Sister Mary. YOu'll get overly mixed reviews!
Very true. Not to mention that Kate being the Deputy (or having the patrol wagon) + Arcane Insight is a combo able to beat almost every game
Has anyone tried this combo with the Innsmouth board? When IH first came out, it was suggested that the DOR track might be an effective check on Kate's power. Can anyone say if it actually works out that way?
avec said:
Julia said:
EcnoTheNeato said:
Though Joe Diamond, Mandy, Ashcan Pete, and even Kate Withrop are able to "hold their own" as the original 16 vs. the Innsmouth 16. Just...don't ask about Sister Mary. YOu'll get overly mixed reviews!
Very true. Not to mention that Kate being the Deputy (or having the patrol wagon) + Arcane Insight is a combo able to beat almost every game
Has anyone tried this combo with the Innsmouth board? When IH first came out, it was suggested that the DOR track might be an effective check on Kate's power. Can anyone say if it actually works out that way?
Well, it's true that you can't stop gates from opening indefinitely with the IH expansion board in play, but even then I'm sure this combo is still very powerful.
Oh, a quick question. If Kate is sitting on an elder sign while a gate burst happens on the same unstable location she is on, is the elder sign still removed but the gate is prevented from opening? Or is the elder sign still retained? Never happened in my games before, but I'm just curious what should the ruling would be.
Always wondered the same thing, but never asked. I'd say that she prevents the gate from opening, but not the sign being burst. Similarly, if she's squatting on a gate when it surges (this happened in game once), it didn't prevent the actual surge, but prevented two monsters from appearing (4 monsters to appear, and 3 gates open, and she was on the source of the surge). At least, that's how I played it (and hopefully you all would do the same!)
But this just got me thinking...what about spawn monsters like Child of Abhoth? Do they not appear if Kate is on the Surging gate? Or a Servant of Glaaki, if Kate's hanging out there and the gate drawn is where she is...TIbs, Avec, I know you guys have probably thought about this while dwelling on your Werewolf theories! Oooooh, or if she's in, dare I say, Sentinel Hill and the Duniwch Horror awakens o_O Would she prevent it for as long as she stays there (since the Dunwich Track will always be full, and can only be "unfilled" if it's defeated or random Dunwich encounters...)?
Just one of the many reasons to not play with gate bursts . . .
I don't think Tibs and I see eye to eye on this, but... I think that "enters" and "appears" are two different things. "Enters" implies movement, but "appears" does not. A monster that appears was there all along, just hidden. According to her investigator card, Kate prevents monsters from appearing, but she does not prevent them from moving. Therefore, if she is sitting on a gate that surges, you have to decide if monsters moving through a gate count as "moving." I'd say that they are moving, since they are entering a new location, which implies movement. However, I'm guessing that Tibs (with whom the buck stops, barring divine intervention from Kevin Wilson) would say something different.
Regarding gate bursts, I think it's been established that Kate prevents the seal from being removed, but she does not prevent flying monsters from moving. I'm not 100% sure though.
I know you guys have differing opinions, which is why I asked :-D But while I was pondering your interpretation, I thought it to be a good assessment. But then I thought of this in a random moment just now: Elder Sign Pendant "Discard to prevent a monster surge. Instead, 1 monster (or 2, if there are 5 or more players) appears at the gate indicated on the Mythos card." Emphasis obviously mine. Food for thought, I guess. Any thoughts? Does this seem to imply that monsters appear at gates in the Mythos phase when they opne, just at a monster surge, both, neither? Or does it seem to just be a special case because of its effect?
And very interesting on the "no seal removal" It does make sense (though not enough for me to rule it that way...yet!), and makes you wonder if the removal of the sign is keyed to the gate opening, or merely the card saying there should be a burst there. As for movement, I doubt Kate prevents that, as you move all flying monsters even if there is no Elder Sign on that location (so the movement part seems more keyed with the Gate Burst card than if a gate is actually burst).
All right, let me take a crack at what I think is being asked:
If Kate is on a Gate Burst, she prevents the entire burst. The seal stays. A Deep One Rising token is added, if using Innsmouth.
A gate burst prevented by Kate is still a drawn gate burst, so flying monsters should still move.
If Kate is on a gate where a monster surge is centered, she cancels the entire surge, because the gate that was supposed to appear on her location to cause the surge gets prevented. This probably also translates to a DOR token but without Kate "a gate wouldn't have opened" so I don't know.
Kate is not immune to monsters moving to her. Monsters will still swoop down from the sky on her if she happens to be in the wrong place. But she probably should not prevent Spawn monsters from appearing, because then she could indefinitely delay things like the Dunwich Horror, and unlike the Pentagram of Blood, she could just sit there and keep the DH from coming out, whereas the Pentagram requires a huge input to delay the DH for only a short time.
EcnoTheNeato said:
Always wondered the same thing, but never asked. I'd say that she prevents the gate from opening, but not the sign being burst. Similarly, if she's squatting on a gate when it surges (this happened in game once), it didn't prevent the actual surge, but prevented two monsters from appearing (4 monsters to appear, and 3 gates open, and she was on the source of the surge). At least, that's how I played it (and hopefully you all would do the same!)
But this just got me thinking...what about spawn monsters like Child of Abhoth? Do they not appear if Kate is on the Surging gate? Or a Servant of Glaaki, if Kate's hanging out there and the gate drawn is where she is...TIbs, Avec, I know you guys have probably thought about this while dwelling on your Werewolf theories! Oooooh, or if she's in, dare I say, Sentinel Hill and the Duniwch Horror awakens o_O Would she prevent it for as long as she stays there (since the Dunwich Track will always be full, and can only be "unfilled" if it's defeated or random Dunwich encounters...)?
This really should be in the FAQ. According to Ecno, the sign is removed but the gate doesn't open but avec says that the sign is protected AND the gate doesn't open. Which is the correct way to play?
Then the question of spawn monsters arise. Could Kate prevent the Dunwich Horror from awakening? Does her special ability not apply to spawn monsters? Then again there's the question of whether if a monster entering a location is the same thing as a monster appearing at a location. Is there a difference between the two terms, "appear" and "enter"?
I love this game, but all these rules and exceptions are headache-inducing. I wonder if there will ever be an answer to these questions...
Tibs said:
All right, let me take a crack at what I think is being asked:
If Kate is on a Gate Burst, she prevents the entire burst. The seal stays. A Deep One Rising token is added, if using Innsmouth.
A gate burst prevented by Kate is still a drawn gate burst, so flying monsters should still move.
If Kate is on a gate where a monster surge is centered, she cancels the entire surge, because the gate that was supposed to appear on her location to cause the surge gets prevented. This probably also translates to a DOR token but without Kate "a gate wouldn't have opened" so I don't know.
Kate is not immune to monsters moving to her. Monsters will still swoop down from the sky on her if she happens to be in the wrong place. But she probably should not prevent Spawn monsters from appearing, because then she could indefinitely delay things like the Dunwich Horror, and unlike the Pentagram of Blood, she could just sit there and keep the DH from coming out, whereas the Pentagram requires a huge input to delay the DH for only a short time.
Oh, didn't realize Tibs reply five minutes ago. Sounds like reasonable answers that I would accept for now! But are there any official answers to these questions?
Ah, okay, so for surges: the gate would have appeared on top of the already existing gate, and I guess she cancels the Gate opening all together. So when it comes to Phase 5, you ignore the part where it says "Location has an open gate" because that gate never technically opens on TOP of said gate. Complicated, but I get it.
And for gate bursts, the burst appears to be reliant on the gate, and not its own function then, I guess? So no gate means no gate burst (as opposed to no gate means just burst). Sound, but still not srue if I agree enough with it to implement it I suppose 
But...hopefully it'll never come up! Though you have convinced me about the monster surge part. That I think totally buy (for now!).
PS-Sorry for hijacking your thread, JScott...Carry on folks...
EcnoTheNeato said:
Elder Sign Pendant "Discard to prevent a monster surge. Instead, 1 monster (or 2, if there are 5 or more players) appears at the gate indicated on the Mythos card."
Hmm, interesting. Maybe "appears" is meant to refer to the original placing of a monster on the board, while "moves" refers to movement along the arrows.
I wouldn't read too much into it, avec. You know how liberal FFG got with the term "location" in the later expansions. Even in parts of the earlier ones.
Tibs said:
I wouldn't read too much into it, avec. You know how liberal FFG got with the term "location" in the later expansions. Even in parts of the earlier ones.
Thus speaks a jaded FAQ proofreader ;'D
Don't worry about hijacking the thread. The point has long since passed. Based on this, despite my better judgment, we'll just let people choose Innsmouth investigators without limit even though we don't play with any of the expansion boards.