I can't seem to find a really clear answer for this.

When someone opens a chest and the treasure is distributed, later a hero sells that "copper treasure" is the copper treasure discarded and NOT placed back in the treasure pile? The same would happen with a Treasure cache on a draw, correct?

In effect, you can "run out of treasure" because once you sell it, it doesn't re-enter the appropriate treasure deck.

Just looking for a "yep you're right" or "nope, that's wrong". If I'm wrong, please point out where (whether the FAQ, Errata, or Rulebook) where it specifies said action. Thanks in advance.

"If a treasure deck runs out of cards, it is not reshuffled. The heroes simply cannot gain any more treasure of that type this game." (Rules p.19)

I would definitely say the implication is that sold treasures are gone for good.

It's a bit less clear for shop items; I usually allow sold shop items to be repurchased (at full cost) later on if the heroes want.

I wish it was a little more "blatant" in the rules, but I agree with you. Thanks!

I'd have to read the rules again for the actual answer but we play that all treasure once used, sold or not purchased is put on the bottom of the deck face up and only shuffled once you have gone through all the treasure. We found it aggravating getting the same treasure over and over that we did not want.

Whoa do you guys mean that when you sell something it doesn't get back in the treasure pile? Cause we have been playing like that and i think it is also quite clearly mentioned in the faq

Q: If a potion or a Town Deck item is discarded, do
they go back to the pool of available items or are they
out of the game? If an item is sold back to the shop, is
it discarded or added/shuffled back into its appropriate
deck?
A: Town items and potions are replaced back into the
deck.

even though it doesn't mention treasures. So do you mean that if you buy something and then sell it you put it in the graveyard cause that clearly isn't mentioned anywhere and in order to do that it must be specifically be mentioned.

Antistone above, quoted the rulebook saying,

"If a treasure deck runs out of cards, it is not reshuffled. The heroes simply cannot gain any more treasure of that type this game."

Which we both are led to believe that you put the cards that you sell (only from the treasure decks) in the graveyard.

I think that is how you deal with treasure cards.

You are right though, that items from shop, and potions, are "reshuffled" in, and not put in the graveyard.

Unless someone can point out anywhere (and please, someone, do) where it says to reshuffle treasure cards, I believe they need to be discarded.

The "graveyard" is a concept from the extended campaign. I don't know the rules for treasures in extended campaigns; they're probably different.

But in vanilla, it specifically says that treasure decks are never reshuffled. The FAQ you quoted just refers to shop items and potions, so that clarifies that side issue (in exactly the way we expected), but I don't see any reason it would affect the rules about treasures.

Unless someone finds something official then i believe that the items are reshuffled at the end of the week and since nowhere does it state that sold items are discarded to the graveyard i am am certain very again available. Even when they are destroyed by a crushing blow or frost they come back so why go away with sell?

Now about the vanilla it really doesn't matter as when you sell a copper item you won't probably be going again to that treasure deck since probably next time you will draw from a silver or gold. But anyway it is good to know even though i don't know if we will ever go back in the quest thing.

By the way does that mean that if you draw a treasure cache card you don't put it back in the vanilla? It's been some time but i think we have been putting it back so we could have been playing that wrong.

Drglord said:

In the Advanced Campaign, you are correct, the items sold or discarded for any reason are reshuffled into the appropriate deck at the end of the Game Week. Unless something explicitly says it should go to the graveyard.

But please bear in mind that the OP was asking about rules for vanilla Descent. As such your passionate arguments, while technically correct, might prove misleading since you're talking about the AC game and no one else here was.

Drglord said:

Nothing goes back into a treasure deck in vanilla, not even the caches. You're also right that this is less likely to be a problem in vanilla since the odds of a treasure deck running out before the heroes find at least one silver chest are pretty slim (although they are greater for players who are only using the base game - expansions have added quite a bit of girth to these decks)

Items sold are reshuffled immediately, you are confusing them with market items that remain on the market until the end of the week and then reshuffled.

Below is the appropriate part of the rules.

Items can also be sold at the Market, for half their purchase
price. Sold items are re-shuffled into the decks they came from.

At the end of a given week, any treasure items that were not
purchased from the Market are re-shuffled into the decks they
came from.

Perhaps I can "sum it all up"

FOR DESCENT JITD (VANILLA)

TREASURE cards once sold are not placed back in the appropriate deck; however, SHOP cards and POTIONS are .

FOR ADVANCED CAMPAIGN

Everything is re-shuffled into the game deck after the game week?

Thoughts? Does this clarify all the discussion? I want to make sure I'm operating the game properly for both styles of play. And I want to treat the base game like the base game and the AC as such. If I'm off base on this analysis, please advise and correct! As always, thanks in advance.

Phos_Hilaron said:

I think you've got it straight there.

Again nothing is reshuffled after the week end only the items that they were on the market and not bought. So unless someone can produce something of a rule then everything is reshuffled immediately inside the treasure deck. That raises questions about treasure cache cards but we have never gotten to the situation that only treasure cache are in since it is practically impossible to buy everything not to mention you get crappy markets if alot of treasure caches are inside.

As i said the reshuffle on the end of the week happens only for the market items that they were not bought that week. That is the ONLY ruling for treasure items in the RTL. But ofcourse since the original rules apply if not specifically overriden it would be nice to know what happens with treasure caches and the rest. Been ages i played vanilla but still i can't find a different rule about treasures.

What do you do with treasure caches? Say you draw them in a dungeon level do you immediately reshuffled it again (after picking another card ofcourse) or wait for the end of the week? Or it is out of the deck for ever (highly doubt it since they are used in markets as empty slots)? This could be interesting since in our last market attempt with 4 items we drew 3 of 4 treasure caches and the funny thing is we just got to gold so the treasure deck was full of items

Drglord said:

The term "immediately" is not in the rules, so the timing of the reshuffle is unclear.

Treasure caches drawn when revealing the market are discarded according to the rules, so they would never be shuffled if following RAW. I doubt that this is the correct way to play.

There is no rule regarding treasure caches found in a chest, so, applying vanilla rules, they would be discarded and never get re-shuffled for the rest of the campaign. Again, I doubt that this is the correct way to play.

Only items destroyed by Crushing Blow are specifically reshuffled into the deck, "at the next time the deck is shuffled" - which would be at the end of the week, and only if there were unpurchased treasures.

Bottom line: Applying RAW is useless in this case.

We play it the way that all treasure cards drawn and/or discarded and/or destroyed during a week are re-shuffled at the end of that week. Period.

I think a faq question is warranted in this case. Not that FFG has been busy answering questions anyway.

I think Steve-O and I summed it up, unless someone can prove otherwise (and please do).

I would, as I'm sure most people would, love a moderator to "cast the final judgement" or move this post to the FAQ section, since there seems to be some discrepancy in answers.

I think that Steve-o has it right as well. Two reasons to support that

Under the Market heading it states that items sold are shuffled back into their respective decks. As shop items are only one deck this implies that treasure items go back into their respective decks immediately and are reshuffled at that time.

Additionally, the only time cards are taken out of play in RTL is when they are specifically sent to the Graveyard for the remainder of the campaign whether by using them or by the instructions within the game itself. As there is no rule indicating that items that are dropped or discarded or crushing blow'd are sent to the graveyard they are not removed from the game and as a result must be reshuffled back into their respective decks.

We've never yet encountered such a plethora of treasure in RTL that we have hit equipment limits and had to discard items so I don't know how often that would come up but like I said before, nothing states that discarding an item places it in the graveyard so I would still say it remains in play.

The Market text:

All heroes who visit that Market that week may purchase items
from among the drawn cards. Of course, once particular cards
are purchased, they are not available to heroes who visit the
Market later the same week. Copper items cost 250 coins to
purchase, Silver items cost 500 coins, and Gold items cost 750
coins. Any shop item can also be purchased at the Market for
its listed cost; these are not drawn as above, but are always
available. A hero must be able to carry a given item in order to
purchase it.
Items can also be sold at the Market, for half their purchase
price. Sold items are re-shuffled into the decks they came from .
At the end of a given week, any treasure items that were not
purchased from the Market are re-shuffled into the decks they
came from.

Two instances of re-shuffling, when items are sold and when there are remaining treasures.