Guardian Pillar clarifications.

By Magnus Arcanis, in CoC Rules Discussion

While I'm rather sure I know the answer to these questions... but I seek clarifications.

*Guardian Pillar
Type: Support Faction: Neutral
Cost: 3
Dreamlands. Location. Mutable.
If you control more Dreamlands support cards than any opponent, you may exhaust Guardian Pillar to commit it to a story as a character with 4 skill, (T)©©©, and Invulnerability.

Q1: What happens if say Forced Foreclosure or Bootlegging Operation is attached to it and then it commits?

Rulings:

(v1.1) Attached Cards
When a card becomes attached to another card due to card effects (like Tear Gas, Summons of the Deep F86), that card is now considered a support card (regardless of its normal type) with the Attachment subtype. The card loses all of its characteristics (such as skill value, icons, and type) except for any text that applies to its attached state. The card retains its faction identity and printed cost.

When a card changes type (character, support, event, or story), any cards that are attached to it are immediately discarded from play.

FAQ
"Also, it is important to note that Guardian Pillar is no longer a support card while it is a character, and that it does retain its name and uniqueness."

Now, the seoncd paragraph of the first ruling is what is tripping me up here. The enitre first paragraph is in reference to a card becoming an attachment and the 2nd paragraph simply tells us that when this happens it loses anything attached to it. Being that the 2nd paragarph is a 2nd paragraph I question its application. Is it only talking about cards becoming an attachment or does its effect reach beyond that an act as a blanket effect for anything that changes type?

Q2a: With the new Neutral Ground out, what happens exactly with Guardian Pillar when it commits?

Really I got nothing for this... I simply have no idea. Does it force it back into a now exhuasted support card? Does it do nothing cause its effect is already placed on it? Suppose this kind of thing is why I generally dislike blanking of text boxes, especially mass passive ones. A rulings headache and a half if you ask me.

Q2b: Same situation as 2a but what if it readies somehow and the player wants to use Bootlegging Operation's Action ability?

Bootlegging Operation
Type: Support Faction: Syndicate
Cost: 2
Attachment.
Attach Bootlegging Operation to a Location support card.
Action: Exhaust attached Location card to draw 1 card from the bottom of your deck.

I'm assuming that they the player can't because neutral ground removes Guardian's Pillar's subtype but wonder if Bootlegging Operation's effect mzy supercede it (wishful thinking most likely as I wished cards like this simply just said, "Exhaust attached card...")

Q1: I'd say attached cards are removed from Guardian Pillar when it is exhausted to commit to a story.

Q2a: This is tricky. I slightly lean towards ruling that Neutral Grounds does not have any effect on it. Main reason being that it causes the least headaches gui%C3%B1o.gif Also, in a way it doesn't really have a printed text box after its transformation into a character. The character's 'virtual' text box only contains the keyword Invulnerability and temporarily overwrites Guardian Pillar's text box. Or something...

Q2b: I don't think that's a situation that can actually happen, given my take on Q1. Readying it requires it having been exhausted, hence it cannot have the Bootlegging Operation at that point. I might be overlooking something, though.

Agree all with jhaelen.

- type change = discarding attached cards
- Neutral ground target the PRINTED textbox. The Guardian pillar have a textbox (as defined in the faq) but it's not a printed one. So no effects.
- The "exhaust" word of the BO or the Guardian is two different cost. When you pay the cost of the BO, you don't pay the cost of the Guardian's effect (it doesn't come a character when he is exhausted by a card effect, you must exhaust it voluntary to trigger its effect).

If you trigger the BO > you exhaust the attached support (the guardian is a support he doesn't come a character, you haven't pay for this).

if you play the guardian effect > you exhaust the GP to see him become a character > type is changing > you discard the BO attached.

Q2a: (Note: Clearly we have no way to officially evaluate these - so only opinions here). If I were supposed to come up with official rulings on this, I would say that when GP exhausts to become a character, it generates a new (albeit virtual) card with a "printed text box" that contains the keyword Invulnerability as well as having the icons and skill. In such a ruling, you could blank this new text box. But following that logic, I would have to also assume it has "printed" icons and skill on the new, virtual card.

Faq p.12

(v1.0) Text Box
A card’s text box consists of subtypes
and game text relevant to gameplay,
including keywords such as Willpower
and Fast.

Be careful to not confuse what is printed and what is not printed (see difference between icons / printed icons and skill/ printed skill, you have the same thing between text box / printed text box ).

The text box is a technical wording regrouping subtypes, game text and keywords of a card (Keywords and subtypes are not always printed on the card, the card can gain subtype/keywords with other cards in play). A text box is not always a printed one, see a card like GP or the encounter Intervention (The Spoken Covenant F42). So yes GP have a text box but it is not a printed one. In the same idea GP have some icons (TCCC) but it is not printed icons (Printed icons refer only to the icons printed on the left-hand side of character cards) > you have no printed icons on the left-hand side of the GP.

Other example :

I have in play 2 cards : Dutch Courage and Triggerman.

According to the FAQ, the Triggerman have this textbox : " Criminal ; Loyal ; Willpower ; Thougness +1 " but its printed text box is just ""Criminal ; Loyal ; Willpower".

It means also a card like Primal fear blanks all the text box (and so Triggerman will lose also the Thougness he gains with the dutch courage) but a card like called by azathoth blanks only its printed text box (and so the Triggerman will lose Criminal ; Loyal ; Willpower BUT not the Thougness he gains with Dutch Courage).

Dutch Courage
[syndicate] Core Set F73 / Illustrateur : John Goodenough
[support] - Item.
Coût : 2
Descriptif : Characters you control gain Toughness +1.

Triggerman
[syndicate] Core Set F67 / Illustrateur : Patrick McEvoy
[Character] - Criminal.
Coût : 2 / Skill : 2 / Icones : CI
Descriptif : Loyal. Willpower.

So Dadajef, I think you are positing that the GP does not get a virtual printed text box.

And that might be true - we never had a support card turn into a character before, and I'm not sure the rules (and FAQ) were written with enough foresight to account for this.

Yes, GP get a text box but not a printed text box.

We had mutable cards in the old CCG and also in LCG with the [Yog-Sothoth] Idol of the Abomination (The Path to Y'ha-nthlei F113)