Here's the situation:

At the very end of OE I caused a large "blip" to appear on the sensorium of the Emperor's Wrath. This made the Fleet Captain Cobb give the order to abort combat even though victory otherwise would have been in grasp. The captain feared the arrival of some more unknown Tyranid forces and was not willing to take a risk (he's been portrayed as a more cautious man).

This led to the kill-team leader first try to persuade him then try to intimidate him (waving with the Inquisition-stick). All-in-all a good performance but unsuccessful as the Captain (though intimidated) reaffirmed the order to change heading and leave the battlezone.

Just as tension was at its peak (one KT member had actually begun shaking the Captain), the message that visual contact had been established broke. After much gasping and breath-holding a DW Battle-Barge came in sight which led to a round of cheers and much shoulder-patting. And a destroyed nid invasion fleet.

So here's the question: the kill-team leader told me that he would nonetheless complain to the Inquisition about it. Him being a Ultra DW I assume they would at least listen to his complaint. What do you think was going to come out of it though?

I have my own ideas of what the response would be but I'd like to hear other people's input.

Alex

I wish I could remember the exact quote but it goes something like this: "The Emperor maybe the master of mankind but the Captain is the master of his ship".

I think that the your captain was within his rights to refuse the Deathwatch but he will answer for it later (possibly at a court martial); especially as they were using Inquisitorial authority to back up their "requests".

DW

Caution should not be equal to cowardice. The captain of the ship should be court martialed and stripped of rank as he wanted to run away from an unknown signal when victory was at hand.

This procedure sometimes causes the navy to lose ships and crew but why retreat when it could be reinfocments ? If he had shown fear while facing enemy of mankind then the bridge commisar should shoot him down and take over to continue fighting.

Direct quote from OE: "This situation is made more interesting by the fact that Cobb has no command over the Kill-team, nor do they have any authority over him."

Worst case for the marine would be that he gets reprimanded for acting like an Inquisitor. That ][ on the shoulder pad doesn't give the same authority as a rosette, something he should learn quickly. Of course it depends largely on who gets to look into the case. Some would execute Cobb for cowardice, others would commend him for protecting his battle group. If the contact would have been another Tyranid vessel (and if they got a size reading it would have been comparable to another hiveship), he only had a small squadron with a battlecruiser as the heaviest ship AND there would have been the threat of reestablished synaptic control. Dying there wouldn't have helped, waiting for reinforcements is a sensible option. In the end it doesn't matter, because it was a battle barge, the battle was won, the marine seemingly has a bruised ego. Even if he is successful and Cobb gets reprimanded or executed his name will be known among the Imperial Navy and they will maybe follow his orders next time, but never ever offer any help by themselves.

Mjoellnir said:

Which is a bit odd to me, as in other places it indicates that the DW speaks with the full authority of the Inquisition, but in places like this it seems to contradict itself.

Charmander said:

Based on my reading (which is almost entirely from the various RPG books) , a full on Inquisitor would not be able to give that order (or at least, not directly. I can see a few indirect ways)

The Imperium seems to be set up with all the different branches that are equal, with no one branch being higher rank than any of the others (other than the Lords of Terra themselves) but each being supreme in their own area. In many ways it reminds me of the Scarlett Empire (in exalted), in that it was never really intended to function without the central leadership.

Now, if an Inquisitor either believes, or is willing to say he believes, that the captain is fleeing because he's tainted in some way, or being mind controlled, or such, he has the power to remove the captain from power, which leaves the 1st officer in charge, and most likely unwilling to go against the Inquisitor, but that is an indirect way (which is, IMHO, how the Inquisition generally works, based on FFG's choice of creating Influence from Ascension.)

Don't forget your grain of salt,

Larin.

An Inquisitor could order the ship to stay, and unless they wanted to be deemed a traitor and shot, the captain would have to obey.

The Deathwatch, however, are not the Inquisition, merely an allied organisation, and as such have no direct power over other aspects of the various Imperial armed forces. Of course, a captain or a platoon of troops might do what they ask/order because, well, they're Space Marines, but there is no obligation to do so.

Also, just as a point of reference, the Deathwatch only usually have ships on the level of frigates, raiders, and other strike craft, mainly because they operate as small teams and require fast and agile transport rather than something capable of sustained naval combat. The Deathwatch don't use battle-barges, as they have no use for such large ships of war, mainly due to them not having nearly enough Marines in any one area to justify using them. A Strike Cruiser is a possibility, but then they'd only have a couple in each sector. If they needed a Battle-Barge, they'd request assistance from a local Space Marine chapter rather than have their own.

MILLANDSON said:

Usual being the key word- DW core indicates they have their frigates, and 'much larger vessles in reserve' in the Reach, but leaves specifics as non-specific as usual. The point is very valid though, the DW don't have a large use for the bigger warships, it just doesn't fit with their mode of operation.

MILLANDSON said:

Untrue. From OE:

"Shortly thereafter, a Deathwatch battle barge arrives, marking the end of the swarm for good. The Kill-team can finally be reunited with the Deathwatch and can conclude their mission by giving their report to their commander."

It may hold true for the DW in general but for the DW in the Jericho Reach, their situation is different. Probably because of the long time having been cut off from the Imperium proper.

Alex

Just because on writer thinks it makes sense doesnt mean it has to make sense to the rest of us.

I simply think the Battlebarge was needed as an excuse to get a single ship with enough firepower to kill of the rest of the Nids, while still making it a DW vessel.

Its only kinda meh, because Barges are meant for ca. 300 Marines or rather 3 full companies to be deployed into combat. The DW has no need for that capability. Theyre not Grey Knights after all.

For me its as intelligent as the Blood Raven fluff in the PC Games or the current Ultramarine Codex fluffwise. The numbers dont add up, it works when my mind is in cinematic mode and only thinks about the cool pictures, but disbelief kicks in, when you actually think about it.

I've been looking around and found nothing about DW not having a battle barge or a strike cruiser at least.

DW are a bunch of specialist xeno hunters but still there is some space for a heavy hitter waiting in orbit to unleash it's cargo of ordnance or loads and loads of Astartes in pods or Thunderhawks.

They are a chapter after all and despite not fallowing the Codex Astartes by word they deserve a vessel of terrible firepower just to be sure that their specialist warheads given to them by the Ad-Mech are unleashed upon their foes... in a manly fashion.

In other words - sometimes they will need to descretely obliterate something and they do not need to risk the Navy spreading the word.

I think that the KT leader should probably keep his mouth shut. Even though the Captain might have made a bad call and may face reprimand for it, it's a Navy matter, now a DW one. The Navy would have had other officers on-deck who would have filed after-action reports, and perhaps even a Commisar. Does the KTIC really think it's his job to fill in reports on other people, outside his command structure when there are other people who are supposed to be doing so?

Assaulting the Captain of a vessel while it was engaged is way out of bounds, though. The character lacked any authority to do so. A Rosette might have been enough, but anything else... no. I can see the Navy getting VERY shirty with the DW over the matter if there's a formal complaint made by the character. Whereas if he keeps his mouth shut, it might just all blow over and be sorted out internally (by the Navy).

If the PC presses the matter, I'd seriously consider giving the PC the 'bad reputation' flaws with Navy officers, having assaulted a Captain on the bridge of his own vessel and then tried to cause more trouble afterwards.

Well, it's true that in OE a lot of things don't add up. (Marines can only survive 10 minutes in the void, really? And otoh a Marine who gets tossed away from the Hive Ship can be picked up alive after the space battle is over???)

Page 335: "Larger warships and also several captured raider vessels and merchantmen are held in reserve should a particular mission warrant their use."

That's about all we got - and a statement on page 330 that most vessels who come to Erioch are smaller vessels. Anyway, in my game there is a DW Battle-Barge in Jericho because I have run OE that way last Friday.

As for size, consider the size of Erioch and that about only a few dozen Deathwatch marines are present there at any given time. Or how in Shadow of Madness it gets mentioned that the Kill-Team feels unusual to get dropped planet-side in a nearly empty Thunderhawk.

@Siranui: I understand your pov. Allow me to say this though: it was actually (very) good role-playing by the player. He has been the Ultramarine team leader with an "Ambitious" personal demeanour. (And he lost a dear friend (Apothecary Lucian) on the Hive Ship.) When they came back, he thought they had landed a great triumph only to have certain victory to be stolen away by fate and a very cautious Fleet Captain and all sacrifices having been in vain (the whole Stormtrooper company bought it too). In fact he will be awarded extra-xp for his role-playing either way and his filing a complaint isn't out of line with his ambitious nature either. Doesn't mean that necessarily everything will go his way though.

I just wanted to point out that the player wasn't just behaving like a jerk but was actually playing his character - quite well as I found. At least he did some roleplaying whereas other players were playing it only as a combat RPG. So I don't want to punish this with the effect that he will refrain from role-playing a character too.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Well it seems to fit together really.

The captain didn't expect a ship of that size to be Imperial so the Navy might vindicate his discision (Navy ships of that size wouldn't be without the rest of their fleet, and Marine vessals of that size seem suitable rare).

On the other hand the Naval top brass might well be sore that the DW stole the kill (even though the DW KT set it up) and, even if they don't reprimand him for backing down might ruin his career.

The comisariate on board could take either view, if they were crapping it when they saw a vessal of that size then they might be pretty quite about the incident.

As for your UM. Filing a complaint is a very UM thing to do. I wouldn't imagine the =I= would be likely to follow it up, they'ed probably pass it onto the navy or Comissariat for a long winded enquiry, possible further hurting the Captains career.

And maybe the Watch Commander gets a complaint form the Navy or Commissariat, given the circumstances, that's not going to account for more than a warning not to let emotions get in the way and some time to meditate on the importance of the Imperial command structure.

I would have promoted his 1st Mate to Captain with extreme kinetic energy (bolter) poisoning.