Now we have got FAQ 2.1 from FFG.
Narrow Escape is limited once per phase.
I have a question.
If I play Narrow Escape, then my opponent discard his hand to cancel it. Can I play another Narrow Escape then, since the first one was cancelled?
Is it the same with Limited response, such as Castellan of the Rock? If the response was cancelled by "he calls it thinking", can he response again by playing another HL character?
Limits are on the number of times an effect can be initiated, not on how many times they can be resolved successfully.
So if an effect with a limit is canceled, you have still reached the limit.
By the way, this kind of limitation works on the Title of the card, right? I mean, can I trigger 2 different "limited to 1 per phase" effects? Let's say Seductive Promise and Assertion of Might during the same challenges phase.
Limits on events apply to the initiation of all event cards you own with the same name/title.
ktom said:
Limits on events apply to the initiation of all event cards you own with the same name/title.
Can Narrow escape be played after the last challenge in the challenge phase?
Uncle Joker said:
Limits on events apply to the initiation of all event cards you own with the same name/title.
Can Narrow escape be played after the last challenge in the challenge phase?
ktom said:
Uncle Joker said:
Limits on events apply to the initiation of all event cards you own with the same name/title.
Can Narrow escape be played after the last challenge in the challenge phase?
Assuming you haven't already played another copy earlier in that same Challenge phase, sure. Why not?
As the timing flow chart of Challenge phase shows that we only have player action before a challenge or during the challenge, there is no player action "after" a challenge. So I think if it is the last challenge, I would have no chance to play a "Any phase" card after that challenge.
Uncle Joker said:
The point is that you always have the "opportunity" to declare another challenge until you choose not to declare one. You may have an effect allowing you to declare another one that can only be played after your third challenge. So while it is not exactly intuitive on the flowchart, there is always a player action window between a player's last challenge and the next player becoming "active player" (or ending the phase altogether).
ktom said:
Uncle Joker said:
When you look at the flow chart, there is an arrow going from the "Resolve Challenge" framework action window back to the "pre-challenge" player action window that says "Active Player's Next Challenge Opportunity." So you follow this arrow until the active player chooses not to declare a challenge - either because they don't want to or cannot do any more - in the "Declare Challenge" framework window. So the "pre-challenge" and "post-challenge" player action window is represented by the same box on the flowchart.
The point is that you always have the "opportunity" to declare another challenge until you choose not to declare one. You may have an effect allowing you to declare another one that can only be played after your third challenge. So while it is not exactly intuitive on the flowchart, there is always a player action window between a player's last challenge and the next player becoming "active player" (or ending the phase altogether).
I know nothing about the "opportunity", if I am the first player, and I have all my three challenge done, now after my only opponent's third challenge, (no other plots like storm of sword exist, and no character ability exist like new Robert). Just after his challenge, he could say that he has done all his challenges and it should be approach to the end of Challenge phase immediately according to the flowchart. So I could not have time to play my Narrow escape.
And I checked the core set rules, it said that "Each challenge must follow these steps:1. Declare attackers 2. Declare defenders 3. Resolve. Before and between (but not during) each step, players may play cards and use abilities that are playable during the challenges phase."
Here we found that it only said "before" and "between", so no "after".
Uncle Joker said:
What you are missing here is that your opponent does not say he has done all of his challenges in the space between the "resolve challenge" framework window and the "next player becomes active player" framework window as you imply here. After his third challenge, he follows the "active player's next challenge opportunity" arrow back to the pre-challenge player action window, then says "I have no more challenges" by not declaring a challenge in the "declare challenge" framework window.
Let me ask this. Let's say you have an event card that says "Challenges: after you win a power challenge, kneel your house card to declare an additional power challenge." By your reasoning above, if you are first player and you declare your power challenge as your 3rd challenge (with nothing like the KotStorm Robert out), you could not play this card because as soon as your 3rd challenge is over, your opponent becomes active player.
It comes down to the fact that the game looks for things like King Robert or Storm of Swords when a challenge is declared, not after each challenge is resolved. It's no different from having no gold left in your gold pool during Marshaling, but still having the opportunity to play cards from your hand until you specifically pass on that opportunity as part of the Marshaling player action window.
You are welcome to send this in to FFG for an official answer, but they will tell you the same thing: There is always a final opportunity to use player actions after a challenge resolves, even if all the information on the board says there can be no more challenges. They will explain it to you the same way I have here (with that additional arrow and the "opportunity" for another challenge still existing after the 3rd is declared) because you "never know" what is in someone's hand or deck. So you will always have the opportunity to play Narrow Escape after the last active player's "last" challenge. There are some potential quirks of timing involved, but it doesn't change the fact that there is effectively a player action window between the "resolve challenge" and "next player becomes active player" framework windows on the flowchart because of that arrow.
ktom said:
Uncle Joker said:
What you are missing here is that your opponent does not say he has done all of his challenges in the space between the "resolve challenge" framework window and the "next player becomes active player" framework window as you imply here. After his third challenge, he follows the "active player's next challenge opportunity" arrow back to the pre-challenge player action window, then says "I have no more challenges" by not declaring a challenge in the "declare challenge" framework window.
Let me ask this. Let's say you have an event card that says "Challenges: after you win a power challenge, kneel your house card to declare an additional power challenge." By your reasoning above, if you are first player and you declare your power challenge as your 3rd challenge (with nothing like the KotStorm Robert out), you could not play this card because as soon as your 3rd challenge is over, your opponent becomes active player.
It comes down to the fact that the game looks for things like King Robert or Storm of Swords when a challenge is declared, not after each challenge is resolved. It's no different from having no gold left in your gold pool during Marshaling, but still having the opportunity to play cards from your hand until you specifically pass on that opportunity as part of the Marshaling player action window.
You are welcome to send this in to FFG for an official answer, but they will tell you the same thing: There is always a final opportunity to use player actions after a challenge resolves, even if all the information on the board says there can be no more challenges. They will explain it to you the same way I have here (with that additional arrow and the "opportunity" for another challenge still existing after the 3rd is declared) because you "never know" what is in someone's hand or deck. So you will always have the opportunity to play Narrow Escape after the last active player's "last" challenge. There are some potential quirks of timing involved, but it doesn't change the fact that there is effectively a player action window between the "resolve challenge" and "next player becomes active player" framework windows on the flowchart because of that arrow.
I just want to clarify I think it should add one player action time before the end of the challenge so that it could be more clear to understand.
I am done with this question, and thank you Ktom.
Uncle Joker said: