In my gaming group the biggest loser character is Roslin. She never gets played and we just can't see why fantasy flight would make such a horrible character. So, much to my surprise I have noticed over the course of reading the forums a big love affair with her. So I am curious, what am I missing....she can't use the presidents office effectivly and keep skill cards, a single XO will empty her hand of four skill cards. She can draw or play one (I suppose) freely since it isnt a location to do so but she horribly handicapped as a president. The quaram cards are THE life blood for the president and she is kneecapped by 50% effectiveness and as potentially the only politico person on the board never has the skill cards for votes. The same skill card colours that are the most frequent colours to appear on crisises. Compounding this problem with skill cards are the multitudes of crises that say for the president to dump cards. It is already a challange for a good president to keep cards in their hand because of those crisies. She never has skill cards or has to waste valuable xo's to play Consolidate Powers instead of burning through the quaram. So, it seems her negative is overwhelmingly crippling that her positives do not seem to make up for. So her choices are; 1) keep her hand for voting which is super important but draw quarams at a feeble rate OR 2) draw quaram cards normally which is super important but have no cards for voting which is unacceptable if humans are to stand a chance at winning.

Admittedly, the ablility to choose between two different crisises is pretty cool, it is only on her turn (as I read it) out of a full round. and it is not a guarantee that one card will be good and one bad. Both could be bad anyways, her ability isnt gonna save that. As nice as that every turn is it isn't that superb and certainly not worth being only a half president. Her once per game is also pretty cool but I would argue that if she could actually use the presidents office like normal the net gain would be far outweighing her opg of looking through 4 quaram cards and playing one. It would be better to get an XO every other turn and go digging through four cards or drawing three and playing one a turn, than her opg of drawing four to play one. I have sen it bite her in the butt when a player drew both brutal forces and needed them both; one got played, and one on the bottom of the deck,.

I dn't write this to be insulting but out of genuine curiousity. What am I missing here? Is there a caveat that I missed that says Roslin's negative is commuted at the President's office? Is there a trick in getting her to draw other people's crisies so she can use her ability more than just her turn? I honestly just don't see the appeal, so I was hoping somebody could outline my failure to see her usefullenss or to let me know if there is some errata or rule I am overlooking that she can take advantage of. Or if it really is just a personal preference type thing.

Thanks in advance for any and all help,...

Napoleon and his gang...

Well, I won't pretend I speak for the community, but I am one of the players who considers Laura Roslin a Tier 1 character, so I'll try to articulate some of my reasons:

1) She's better than the alternatives. I'll admit this changes a bit with the arrival of broken Tory Foster. But pre-Exodus, who would you want as president? Gaius can't be trusted, Zarek is generally considered the weakest yellow, and Ellen Tigh is better without the title.

2) Her every turn ability is ridiculous. If all it did was remove the burden of having to Launch Scout once every time around the table, that would be good enough. Allowing the fleet a chance to catch its breath, repair things, draw cards, etc. is no small deal. But it's more than that. The truth is that the raptors don't make it to the end of the game a lot of the time (25% chance of breaking a raptor with every Launch Scout). This calculus completely changes with Roslin. Early game, she translates into only needing 4 launch scouts every 5 human turns. But in the later phases of the game, her presence is often the difference between still being able to Launch Scout (because you've preserved a raptor) versus being completely at the mercy of the deck.

3) Her colors are perfect. There are three power colors, and she draws the only two of them she needs (purple, with its mainstay Launch Scout, is less important to her).

4) Preventative Policy. Roslin's ability to look at two crises makes her one of the best at gaming this card, which she frequently draws.

Now I'll be the first to admit that if the fleet tries to run Laura Roslin the same way it would run another president, it will be at a disadvantage. My group accepts that if Laura Roslin is president, we will be relying less on the Quorum deck than if we had another president. She'll sit in the office all game, play Preventative Policy if she's got it, then XO someone. Each spin around the table, we like to XO her once if we can, allowing her to Consolidate Power (often into purple) and then launch a scout or consolidate again. It's not unheard of for her to burn a couple low-value cards to use her office as one of her actions on an XO, but we certainly don't go out of our way to build the Quorum hand in games with her as President. Her games aren't about using the Quorum deck to replenish our resources. Her games are about her awesome abilities saving us resources in the first place by streamlining the fleet's play.

napoleonWilson said:

You are correct, you may draw 2 bad Crisis cards... but at least you get to bury one for free. With anyone else you would have had to deal with BOTH of them; if Roslin draws 2 attack cards and buries one then you won't get hit by 2 attacks in a row which is what would happen with any other player who didn't launch a scout. Same with a lot of other awful Crisis cards (Standoff with Pegasus for ex).
She is also good as a human or a Cylon since you can bury good Crisis cards without giving yourself away; some of the other good characters work better as a human or a Cylon but not both... Adama's OPT, for example, is bad for a Cylon player since you can't turn it off.
And like Holy Outlaw said, she's better than the alternatives, except maybe (imo) Zarek who mainly just protects his own power and has an "ace in the hole" ability to trade off a pop for another resource. I LOVE Ellen Tigh but she is a horrible President; if I somehow end up as Pres while playing her I will frequently try to vote myself out of office. I guess you can play the odds and assume Baltar's chance of being a Cylon isn't that spectacularly high, but I'd still rather have a President who doesn't have 50% more loyalty cards than everyone else.
Nonetheless, I won't play Roslin. I just don't like playing her b/c I prefer to have cards in my hand and she seems kind of helpless by herself. If you have a big enough group, use Ellen's OPT to feed Roslin cards... I'll do that all day long and encourage others to play Roslin, but I hate playing her myself.

In a three player game, Roslin kicks booty. Every thirds turn, and every other turn once the Cylon reveals... she draws two picks one. IN Exodus, where jump tracks are scarce, this in vital. Launch scout is cool, but you have to "guess" at weather the next card is better or not.

Yes, it's lame she has to waste cards. On her turn, consolidate power, then someone XO her and she she can draw two, or draw play. Or draw one, use president office for 2 cards, and draw a second and then play... also, she is the president. She is discarding for this and discarding for that... so what if she runs out of cards?

In a 5-6 player game, maybe not so much, but we often use Ellen as the second Political, she sits in President office and hand Laura cards.

On new Cap, Roslin is the first one when "pick a character to go t detention" comes up, and she just XOs others anyway, or can play a Quorum and who cares if she fails the role!

But her down side is pretty big. Maybe a Roslin Tory combo will be our new dream team.

I like the Consolidate power idea. We usually don't play Roslin much, but can definitely tell she's there when the crises are less difficult to deal with than usual.

Well, I'll never use her simply because I hated the character (The only one I hated on the show actually).

Aha right there with you Locke.

Sure, they would never have gotten where they did without her, and I would have been sad for Bill if anything had happened to her, but man does she piss me off.

I agree with Holy Outlaw on this. Roslin is definitely one of my top choices. Also, if Ellen Tigh is in the game and goes up to the president's office, she can feed Roslin one card per turn. Roslin can also (as pointed out earlier) use consolidate power to gain cards).

If Ellen is in the game, Roslin can just discard her treachery. This makes Roslin a better president and checks up on the treacherous Mrs. Tigh.

((And I am the only one who LOVES Roslin as a character?))

Part of the brilliance of that show is that you can ask four different people about a character or a decision and get four different opinions on it.

I've yet to hear of anybody who loved Roslin's character in the show, though, so I'm glad they're out there.

Gotta admit my bias here--I also loved her as a character in the show.

I was a big fan up through Season 3; she was one of my least favorite characters in Season 4.

I never really liked Roslin either (the TV show character). I always found her annoying. I also don't like playing as her in the game. Not because of her character, but because I don't like her discard rule. I know others that play her very well, but I'm not one of them. I guess the same is true for Apollo. I don't like his random discard rule. But I know other players that don't mind it and play him very well. It's just a matter of play style and preference.

Some playgroups (not mine) consider it Standard Ops to give the presidency to someone other than Roslin at the earliest opportunity... a one-time waste of cards and an action so that Roslin can use her other kick-ass abilities without worrying about her handicap.

She can almost always either Consolidate or XO, and even if she can't she can just do nothing and still gets to pick between 2 crises. And remember that she can still use her OPG even if she isn't president, and that ability can be a life saver if used properly (or a killer for a Cylon Roslin). Unlike some other characters, her abilities are just as useful whether she is Cylon or human.

Me, I like her on the show, and in the game.

I liked her on the show, but that's because I like Mary McDonnell. Plus, she made a good counterpoint to hard-ass Adama. And there is alot of Roslyn love in our group; she's my wife's favorite Political character, and as she says "might as well ditch these cards, since the food and water shortages will ditch 'em anyways."

1. Draw two crises and pick one is very, very, very good. This is the reason to pick Roslin. It's way better than launch scout, or engine room, or really anything related to crisis manipulation for the humans. It's really good. Really, really good.

2. Quorum cards are not all that great. Arrest order is cute, as is Authorization of Brutal Force and Presidential Pardon. But really? You'll be drawing speeches and rations, and they can be a tiresome waste of time. There are definitely some powerful ones like the ones I mentioned, but they're by far the minority. I realize that doesn't make Roslin's drawback better (if you really want a Quorum card, you'll have to dig for it and she's not really all that great at that on a regular basis), but what I'm trying to show is that digging for Quorum cards in the first place isn't such a great move, and there are better ways to solve problems.

3. Her once-per-game ability is pretty good for digging for a Quorum card. It is a little bit less effective than an executive order (though, it does not require someone else to cooperate, and does not cost someone the green card).

4. Consolidate Power is an effective action. It is as effective as using the Research Lab. She can also Executive Order others. Executive Order Roslin? I'm sure there are other candidates.

5. Her drawback does not read "May not use locations." If you really, absolutely, must dig for a quorum card, she can pitch cards. It's not efficient, but it IS an option available to her. With that in mind, you can also choose options you cannot fulfill the vast majority of the time (so, if Roslin has used the Office, and the next player draws a food shortage, she can choose to discard cards even if she's empty handed).

6. Mostly, you pick Roslin for #1. The drawback is heavy handed, but between consolidation of power and executive order, there is no shortage of good actions available.

Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate them. I guess that is another reason why this game is so great, that players and groups can decide on a multitude of ways of playing. I must say however, that after reading all the responses I found nothing in them at all convincing to want to try Rosln again. The fact that she was a repulsive human being as a character on the show aside, I would much prefer anybody as a President to her, including Baltar. who (up until the new expansion where peaking at loyalty is a most dangerous game) is despite getting 2 loyalty in our estimation the best choice as the politico person. (in all honesty I absolutly detested the show, but I can't get enough of the game). I was really pulling for some kind of errata or something about her but it really does seem just personal choice and opinons as to how to play the game.

Thanks again all for the input my group and I really enjoyed reading and debating about it all weekend;)....I wonder if her character card makes a really good drink coaster??

thanks all...

Napoleon et al.

napoleonWilson said:

D:

If you absolutely have to, you can try discussing a Roslin house rule with your playgroup. Something like having her only need to discard one card to use Colonial One locations or something like that is usually palatable.

Sinis said:

I have to say I disagree with you completely. Speeches are the best way to get Morale back... pretty much the only reliable way. Helo XOing the President to play a speech is a great way to regain Morale. Authorization of Brutal Force is a sure-fire way to get rid of a Centurion instead of wasting actions rolling die which probably won't be successful anyway. Mission Specialist - being able to choose between 3 destinations instead of 2 can be pretty important. Cylon Mugshots is a good way to find a trustworthy player in the first half of the game. Resources for Galactica is almost always helpful.
IMO the only cards that really don't do much are:
Food Rationing (because we never seem to be short on food)
Consulting the Oracle (or whatever that card is called) has only been useful once or twice but it was really useful the few times someone has played it
Arrest Order and Execute Prisoner are very circumstanstial
Probation (again, might not be correct on the card name since it completely sucks)
Civilian Defense Vessel, which probably has more value with Exodus

Excluding Roslin, who can't get as many Quorum cards due to her weakness, any President can grab 4 Quorum cards off of a single XO, so it isn't hard to start working through the Quorum Deck.

See...I find the quaram cards even more vital than you. The Pardon card, HUGE....save an entire vote to get someone out of jail, (which betwen the cylons and their vile dispersions and the vast number of crisises that send players to the brig, getting into the brig is pretty easy) All the cards you listed are still VITAL...in a 4 or 6 player game the best resource to get in the red is Food so you dont get a sympathizer. Then bam,...Food rationing back up after mid point.. Basically, all the quaram cards save the humans so many skill cards simply because they create a condition where events that would normally require a vote, or a big longshot gamble become freebies....that is critical and cannot be understated.

Note that the sympathizer metagaming bull is now fixed since, under the Exodus rules, you can't confidently predict when or if the sympathizer card will be dealt.

My group has the view that Roslin is one of the best human characters & certainly the best of the politician (yellow) characters.

1) Her weakneess of discarding 2 skill cards to use a location action. Can mostly be negated by using an XO-card and getting some other player to do the action for her.

2) Choosing the best of 2 crisis cards is very stong. less so if playing with Exodus (since there are no cylon fleet attacks to avoid) But still strong.

3) If you vitally need a specific quorum card to get the fleet out of a problem, her once per game action is about the best option to get and play that card.

4) And by far the most important, As first in succession for president, choosing Laura prevents anyone else from missusing the presidency. Laura herself can't seriously missuse the presidency because of (1) above.

I don't know what you mean by having another player take it for her....

if she activates a location she dumps the cards, whose turn it is doesnt matter. So if she uses an xo givent to her to search for quarams she has to have 4 skill cards to dump to use the presidents office twice.....thats horrendously, terribly, awful. I still say that her OPG isnt strong enough and that it is nearly useless when considering that a good president can BURN through the quaram deck to get to vital cards through out the game rather than hoping that it is in the top 4 of the deck, cause thats likely all toolbag Roslin will see.

napoleonWilson said:

You've got it backwards. Xaos was talking about having Roslin play XO on another player, not the reverse.

Kushiel said:

Ya, I wondered how he did that. Anyway, the point still remains that Roslin is pretty ineffectual other than as a crisis-card scout. Whereas most players have the option of doing something on their turn OR using XO, with Roslin you've pretty much got to XO every turn, or use the Presidency title (once). Suppose Roslin gets XOd, what are you going to do with her other than use Presidency twice? Consolidate power. I really like her in the show, and she's mildly fun to play in the game, but choosing between never having skill cards or never using locations (yea, consolidate power on my turn!) makes her pretty bland, overall. That's why I support modifying her downside to only apply when not on Colonial One, or only 1 card if on Colonial One, or anything else the playgroup will accept, even if you have to add "cannot use Galactica/Pegasus locations" or some such to maintain the original balance.