Hey guys,

Ok, the Amber order states that an Amber wizard can cast spells in beastform if the spell has the beast form trait...But what about acquire power? The Beast Form card lists te skills that the Beast Form has and so on, Willpower is not one of the base stats and channelling is not a listed skill on a beast form card, like white wolf.

In addition, the spells with the beast form trait are available to be cast in beast form, but the rank 1 spells seem confusing. A spell like Primal Claw says it uses STR vice INT. Thats great in beast form, as I assume you would test with the STR of the wolf. But Feral Howl, with Beast form trait uses Spell craft and INT which are not stats or skills on the Beast form card.

In my mind, reading the amber college stuff, it seems that a wizard in beast form is meant to cast spells with the beast form trait, and that then also means he can still channel power? Or is it supposed to be an occasional spell cast with just the slow return back to equilibrium?

Whats up with the Amber Wizards and there spells...I just want to know I am seeing this right, as I really want to play a Amber Wizard.

As I see it the Beast form cards are put on your character sheet, covering (and thus replacing) your physical stats. That means that your mental/social stats remain the same as you transform your body while your mind remains the same. So you keep any Spellcraft training and INT that your character has.

We had an Amber Wizard and as I interpret the rules they cannot channel power while in beastform. But as you say they recover 1 power at the end of every turn (moving towards equilibrium) as all wizards do, so they are able to cast spells every now and then. I also believe that there is a focus talent that allows you to recover 2 power at the end of each turn, this would be a great investment for Amber wizard characters, since that helps them cast spells more often in beast form. Furthermore it's allways possible overchannel power before you go into a beast form, and thereby have power left over after transforming. Most beastform spells are quite cheap because of this, so with the right talent you should be able to cast a spell at least every two rounds, sometimes more.

Hope it helps, Amber wizards are cool! Play one.

I allow mine to channel power. Remember that channeling, as spellcraft, are subject to miscast rules, so I find it very balancing.

Not allowing it, would mean that you suddenly make the "humanoid" form the only form from which power can be channeled, and I can't see anything special about that form that would make it better at performing that task.

Never had an amber wizard before, but it's very cool.

Spivo said:

I'd say that as per RAW you cannot use Channel power in my oppinion. Since it's considered a Spell action (because of the fireball in the upper left corner of the action card) and you cannot use spell actions (other than those with the beastform trait) when in animal form. I would guess that the beast forms are unable to speak and gesture in the proper manner and thus it is impossible to channel power while in a beastform. That's at least why I'm not allow channeling in beastform.

As a houserule though I would consider creating a Channel Power card specificly for beastform created, so Amber wizards can channel while in other form (but I'd either make the card harder to use or less powerful), and they would have to buy the action (representing the time spent training at channeling in beast form). Or a simpler solution could be to symbolize that it's harder to channel as an animal with an extra challange die to all channel power checks.

k7e9 said:

k7e9 said:

Thanks for the reply. I was reading and re reading Amber wizard spells and information last night, and started leaning towards the notion that the Beast Form cards only replace the physical stats and skills. Which makes more sense to me. Not allowing for the mental stats and skills also would be counter intuitive, since it would also go against some of the beast form powers. Like the Grey Wolf form, obviously meant to be used a s a sort of spy. What good is all that stealth if you can do a little bit of eavesdropping?

So, the main question is can Wizards Channel Power in Beast Form. My take is that they cannot. The benefits of beast form (like better melee or armor or stealth) seems to me the trade off. But still, its a heavy price. Form of the Wolf is a 7 power spell. If you cast this spell during an engagement, you are not likely to get a spell of during the engagement at all, or if you do, it would be a few rounds into it. (Not taking into account over channeling etc) This means, that if you really want to use beast form effectively in an engagement, you need to plan for it ahead of time.

Like you said though, the Amber spells, outside of Beast Form itself, are fairly cheap. USing a talen like Aerythic conduit (Spelling..?) Which lets you manipulate the equilibrium rule by +1 power is a great way to compensate.

One other thing about Amber Wizards, it hard to tell which stats to focus on!

I really like what the Amber Wizard brings to the table, play wise.

simpatikool said:

I agree that Amber Wizards bring really cool (and useful) stuff to the table.

But I'd not say that it's super hard to cast Form of the Wolf, even though it's expensive. Starting off with a high enough willpower (say 4) you only need to channel once and gain 2 hammer and 2 boons, or 3 hammers while in concervative and you have the power needed to power the spell. If Channeling is trained and your willpower is high enough that result should generally not be a problem with the difficulty of 1 purple die. Also you could specialize in overchanneling, thus gaining an extra white die when channeling. And buy a fortune point in willpower early. On the reckless side it would be even easier, since you only need 1 hammer and 1 boon or 2 hammers to get the power needed for the spell. I'd say that generally you should be able to cast a wolf form spell the 2nd round of an encounter. When overchanneling you can keep all power by making a manouver before the end of turn, to keep the power under control, so there should be no loss to overchanneling either, since all power will be used the following turn when casting the spell.

WoM states that the Beastform cards should be placed on top of the character sheet, covering up the section displaying the wizard's physical characteristics and skills (Winds of Magic, p 38). So I'd say that pretty much implies that the mental stats are left as they are. Also if you roll a chaos star when casting form of the grey wolf it states that "you add [black die] to all mental checks..." that also implies that it's possible to use mental characteristics and skills while in beastform.

I agree that it's hard to know what to focus on when choosing the Amber Order, the player who was playing one in my group was constantly torn between what to get, but I'd focus on beeing good at the shapechanging since that's what make Amber wizards cool in the first place. I'd probably go with WP and Int, and train my channeling and spellcraft, plus get some specializations that could help me.

One last question. Ok well two.

I never really understood the purpose of the overchannel specialization. Specializations give you fortune dice. What would be the occasion you would over channel? The only way I could see it being possible is if you had a lowish WP, like 3, were already sitting say at 5 power and you needed to beef up. If you start at 4 WP, you have a pretty good chance of generating the power you need (7) say to cast the Beast Form spell. Would it might not be easier to specialize in Quick casting so you can pretty maybe channel the power and transform in the same turn?

Ok, and one question that has perplexed me about a lot of different spell cards. The spell Primal Claw says it is a melee attack and a spell. The test is STR versus target defence. So, you would use STR as the base stat. Since it is a melee attack, you could use you melee skill if trained I assume. But since it is a spell, if you say, have a spellcraft trained, could you then also use the die for that? There are a number of spells across order and faith based spell lists that will use this dual descriptor for the purposes of the spell. (Like Hammer of Sigmar for example)

Amber Wizards don't have as many INT based spells as the other orders. You could probably get by with a lower INT with an Amber Wizard, than you could with a Bright Wizard.

simpatikool said:

Overchannel is mostly used by bright wizards. Lets say a bright wizard casts flame blast. He can then use 5 power to boost the damage by 5. That is better than casting the spell twice against NPCs with high soak.

simpatikool said:

When using Primal Claw you use Weapon Skill, as the "Action Check"-text on the card states: "Weapon Skill (St) vs. Target Defence. So spellcraft is utterly useless when using Primal Claw. This means that a specialization on spellcraft on rank 1 spells does not add a fortune die to the check (unless you have a kind GM), but if you have weapon skill specialized on Primal Claw it adds one white die.
That it is a spell and melee attack is important since it means that you can use the standard defence actions (block, parry, dodge) and counterspell against it.

What to roll is allways clearly stated in the "Action Check"-line.

Note - the Winter Wolf form has weapon skill nicely trained for your clawing purposes

Also, since it's a somewhat obscure weapon group, we allow a WS spec in claws & teeth. Good catch on the channeling rule, my group didn't spot that. We've been allowing the amber wizard in our group to channel in forms since being a beast probably attracts ghur ... but I'll bring it up next session.

Quick question...

Lots of the Amber spells, are not based on Spellcraft, but on Nature Lore, Weapon Skill etc...

In theory Chaos Stars shouldn't cause miscasts, right? But how do you rule it?

I know they still get it when channeling.

The Miscast possibility is on the action '"casting a spell" or Channeling power, whatever skill being used. A Spell trait card using Nature Lore, Weapon Skill, Observation or Spellcraft (or any other skill) as a skill check is *still* a spell, is still "casting a spell" action type and will draw Miscast on Chaos Stars.

Same with Priest invoking a blessing, the skill can be Piety, Invocation, Nature Lore, etc. without out Miscast. Using a Piety skill based Blessing is still "invoking a blessing" action