See and that was what, 2 paragraphs of text? Wouldnt take much space to include these kind of ideas in an official book.

Indeed Peacekeeper_b.

But this list raises so many questions also; questions that are the 'gaping hole' i argue.

I look at that list with my GM head on and the following occurs. OK, i'm going to have to implement this stuf, lets look at tithes.

Tithes

Who collects tithes on a planet? How? What form are tithes paid in? Where is the tithe stored? What happens if someone doesn't pay the tithe? When and how would the Arbiter intervene? What rights, responsibilities and power to censure does the Arbiter have? What laws would be broken? What sentences would the Arbiter impose? Etc...

Wanted persons

Would the Arbiter just deal with wanted persons on his own world? If so how? What jurisdiction does he have? What resources? What laws are covering the wanted person? Must he be arrested or can he be killed? How - under what circumstances? Who determines the wanted person? Who issues the arrest warrent? Who does the Arbiter report to?

If the wanted person is from another world....what happens then? Does an Arbiter from the home world travel to this other world? What jurisdiction does he then have? Does the Adeptus Arbites instead contact the other world to tell the local arbiters to capture the wanted person? If so, how? What information can be transferred by Astropathy? Does info have to be sent physically? If so what postal service is there? Etc. Etc..

What if the wanted person is a psyker? Or a noble? Or an Ogryn? What then?

Detail and data needed to be able to understand the basics of how things work. Essential stuff for a GM to construct effective roleplaying scenarios and for players to construct PCs that are part of the 40k/DH 'verse. And none of it provided by DH. And it really wouldn't take too much to map out these basics. WEG Star Wars RPG manages to give enough background on how interplanetary activity and culture works within the Star Wars universe in only a few pages.

So when i come to use DotDG, and i see the Pale Throng are an interstellar organisation formed from among the underclass, alarm bells ring. OK, so these mutants, scum, psyker-witches, etc. must have access to interplanetary travel and communication right? Think about that for a moment...what does that imply about interplanetary culture and contact within the Imperium?

Luddite said:

But it says right there that the only thing all these revolts have in common is the Shroud Masters, who managed to run from Tranch and have no contact with each other. It's not unimaginable for let's say a dozen powerful witches with powers of mind control and shapeshifting to leave a planet on chartist or simply smuggler ships.

@ Luddite - although the info is not something that really worries me - I would however agree that it would be excellent to have

Does anyone know if there are any official issues from GW with making the specifics/ defining facts?

off onto the subject of the Seatle Sourcebook - IMHO the Night City for Cyberpunk was a better source book (for isntance had much more useful map/index system, and I prefered the writing style). Adaptions of either of these two (and the Middenheim source book) could work in DH?

Da Boss said:

I have also mentioned the Night City and Middenheim supplements elsewhere, although thanks to Luddite's recommendation I feel I should track down Seattle, as I never played Shadowrun but could use it anyway!

This whole issue is what made 'The Enemy Within' campaign so good -loads of background on how the Empire actually worked, trade on the river, various market places and all the rest of it. Best of all, some actual working environments- Bogenhafen, Middenheim, Altdorf and plenty of small towns in between. All you really need is a couple of really good ones, I reckon, and obviously you can't put the same detail into a hive of billions, but you can try!

I agree. Obviously part of what makes 40k great is that technically anything goes and any planet can be designed to operate in any way you choose. However just 2 or 3 'hard' examples would make life a lot easier all round and provide a basis for extrapolation about how the rest of the galaxy might work.

I suppose it could be argued that dark heresy and to a lesser extent, the other books have tried to do this, with the detailing of Ambulon etc, but far too much space is taken up given the reader a 'feel' for the planet/hive/city, rather than hard reality.

A parallel could be drawn with a real life guide book for a holiday destination. Imagine you read a brochure about a tropical island, it sounds great and interesting. you get told its warm and food is cheap. ok so far so good.

But when it comes to visiting you really need to know what the average temperature actually is as 'warm' is subjective. do you pack shorts or trousers? You need to know how 'cheap' is cheap food. what is the exchange rate? how do you get through customs? or hire a speedboat?

With this in mind i think a source book with just a few places explored in great detail would be invaluable. Personally i'd like to know why Lho sticks are so expensive on how on earth getting paid works (in background terms, not game mechanics). Banking system? credit?

I have a sudden image of a 'sourcebook' designed for acolytes to get an understanding of a world, based on a modern guidebook. Think I'll call them 'lonely planet'

Bad Birch said:

Its sytemless. There are no rules within the sourcebook, just loads of excellent material, descriptions and ideas about the city. I've used it for all manner of RPGs.

If Dark Heresy got something similar covering Calixis that would be great!

To whet your appetite, here's the way the Seattle Sourcebook tends to approach the detail it provides:

RESTAURANTS AND BARS

A Little Bit O' Saigon (#37 Downtown)

Fast food / small restaurant and bar archetypes / South Jackson Street and Broadway / Xiem Nguyen, Owner / No racial bias / LTG# 206 (56-7184)

This family style restaurant offers some of the best Vietnamese food in the city. The owners are friendly folk who often mention their country's troubles and how greatful they are to have come to Seattle. The excellence of the food, which the unsuspecting may find quite spicey, is well worth any delay in getting a table. Bring your breather as the air conditioning is often broken or malfunctioning.

>>>>>>[Many people are of the opinion that Xiem Nguyen is the leader of the Yellow and Red Seoulpa Ring responsible for the assassination of Wayne Olson of the district zoning commission]<<<<<<< -Smiley (12:58:41/11-21-50)

>>>>>>[its hard to imagine Mr Nguyen as the leader of some gang. He is a short balding man who lost his right arm while fleeing the Vietnamese government. He barely knows Cityspeak, let alone English!]<<<<<< -Max Matrix Walker (19:17:49/12-25-50)

As you can see, a very small amount of info on an insignificant little restaurant is stuffed full of plot ideas - often contradictory...almost every entry is like this...

I've always felt that BL, and perhaps now FFG, hasn't really explored the potential of that type of supplement. (It's probably more BL than FFG.) Given the tosh that the former has handed out and that have been eaten up, one cannot help but wonder what the fans of the 40k universe would do for this type of material. I know that I would buy it. Even a physical copy. In an instant.

Kage

even if BL did it and ignored Calixis in favour of something more mainstream and half explored already (say Necromunda), then we'd have some ideas to work with. Hell, I'd buy a source book for any planet going, even if it was Macragge or something.

Kage2020 said:

I strongly suspect they would wonder where the Space Marines are.

For me the best sourcebook i have in my library is Marienburg: Sold Down the River. It is really well contructed, with NPCs all having interesting background. LOTs of ideas.

I wouldn't expect something so specific in DH, mainly because the scope of the game is not the same (a City VS a multi-solar-sector). But the Marienburg soucebook is excellent in his way to describe the common day of the citizen, it's law and rules (even between crime organisation).

For DotDG, i find the Xenos part the less useful, the Beast cartel, the beast of Solomon, the Halo devices and the vapourous controller are all kind of bland. The Slaught are excellent tought. It would have been nice to introduce some new xenos race.

A question about the Night Cult, i'm not a WH40k player, but isn't the human section of Necron called the same thing? Also the untouchable gene is supposed to have been introduce by them as some sort of conspiracy of something. The whole necromantic aspect of it sound a lot like a necron spinoff.

Btw, if you want some fluff about the Guardsman, i highly suggest the Infantryman Uplifting Primer, it's funny AND instructive.

www.blacklibrary.com/product.asp

epsilon4 said:

That supplement is why all my WHFRP adventures sinces 1st Ed. have been in or around (or based out of) Marienburg!

epsilon4 said:

I would expect something that specific, or rather that USEFUL. I think a Calixis Sector sourcebook could readily detail the 'Imperial' interplanetary details (essentially how the Adeptus Terra works).

Then i see no reason why something like Marienburg couldn't be done for each major world (or cluster of monir worlds). These would detail the local cultures and customs, and how they relate to the Calixis-wide Adepta.

The 'gaping hole' needs filling...

Dezmond said:

I seriously doubt it.

I seriously would welcome a book with illustrations and art, specifically for DH and Calixis. I have a rather crazy imagination, but some things are really hard to visualize, especially when a tad of realism and physical laws are to be taken into consideration...

So, more pictures of everything! Please.

Sorry to interrupt, but I just noticed that this thread is running at 666 views and 88 posts... Very spooky indeed. I had to step in and post in case some horrific ritual was about to come to fruition....

Lightbringer2009 said:

Well, if anyone would know i'd have thought it'd be an old devil like you...

Anyway, back on topic, I am absolutely on side with you chaps here. The Night City courcebook, the Seattle sourcebook and the Marienburg sourcebook (and the earlier WD Marienburg articles) are some of the finest examples of well written RPG background you can possibly get.

I'd say that the one book I'd be willing to eat my own ears for is a huge, lavishly illustrated and beautifully written Calixis Sector sourcebook, preferably written with input from all the old BI staffers and freelancers as well as the FFG new blood. Preferably coming off the back of a renewed fan-made planet contribution project. Maybe get Dan Abnett to guest write up a couple of worlds. Oh and if it could have that "new book" smell and come packaged with a Brazilian supermodel (a wish I have expressed on previous forums...) then I could die happy...

Luddite said:

What really baked my noodle here recently, was the role of Ministorum agents in all this. Aren`t they featured in Eisenhorn? Anyone?