boruta666 said:
If Eldar will fall in love with female Space Marine and she will love him too will their progeny be Half-Eldar or half-Space marine ?
Neither, it would be like if a Polar Bear and a Panda had sex; you get a wierd video a small percentage of the population will go crazy for and not much else.
Personally, I'm against the Femme Marines idea too, simply because of the canon and pseudo-science mentioned. One reason I play a particular game is specifically because of its canon. I don't need to fudge with it, or I might as well just be playing a different game. It'd be like putting Terminators in Star Trek. It's doable, but you're not playing Star Trek anymore. If a particular IP or universe is rich enough, it shouldn't require alteration. Except, I suppose, for the odd one-offs for poops and giggles or whtever. Canon is a weird thing, though. There's a few alien species mentioned in the Corebook that I have never heard of in 40K before. Is it canon? Are we getting into that George Lucas verses the Extended Universe battle again?
But that's me, of course. To the OP: it's your game, bud. Do as thou wilt with it. You paid for the book, nobody can tell you how to play.
If I had to choose one of the suggestions, though, I'd go with the Omega Vault. It would give the best potential for story, in my opinion. All the questions, tests, not to mention the very close (and probably very avidly dangerous) scrutiny by seedy agents and Departmentos of the Imperium. I can easily picture an entire adventure where Inquisitors might be tasked by a higher, shadowy branch of a Departmento to follow, observe or perhaps even waylay this 'new heresy'.
The pseudo-science and probably some edict forbids her existance, so somebody somewhere is bound to take violent offense.
This option also interferes with canon less.
KommissarK said:
I believe people dislike the female space marine argument because it smacks of an attempt at political correctness, focuses on the superficial, and fails to recognize what actually matters about a space marine.
Quoted for truth.
No male Sisters of Battle: Cultural/Traditional Decision
No Female Battle Brothers: Result of Pseudo-Super-Science genetic compatability.
I would also endorse the Omega Vault discovered female astartes plot line. She would have no chapter, so I would base the chapter origin part of the character on the Mind Cleansed origin in Inquisitor's Handbook for Dark Heresy. She would fall in as a Black Shield.
Peacekeeper_b said:
KommissarK said:
I believe people dislike the female space marine argument because it smacks of an attempt at political correctness, focuses on the superficial, and fails to recognize what actually matters about a space marine.
Quoted for truth.
No male Sisters of Battle: Cultural/Traditional Decision
No Female Battle Brothers: Result of Pseudo-Super-Science genetic compatability.
Sisters of Battle - personal, all-female, guard of Goge Vandire, High Lord of the Administratum and the head of Ecclesiarchy at the time of the Age of Apostasy, they are the only official millitary of the Ecclesiarchy as it was forbidden for them to have MEN at arms. So they took the Adepta Sororitas as they were all-female.
Space Marines - created from the genetic material of the Emperors clones, the Primarchs, which were obviously all-male as the Emperor was male (and it is stated in varius sources that the two lost primarches were mentioned as brothers). The differences in male and female bodily chemistry makes it impossible for a female to receive implants and all that stuff that was destined to end up in a male body.
If you would like to know more then I would recommend visiting the Lexicanum or other 40k wiki.
Actually there was this one thing that could allow females to become Astartes. Although very Dolph Lundgren like.
The Cursed 21st Founding of the Adeptus Astartes. But I wouldn't recommend making an official chapter out of it, rather an experiment. Some forces in the Imperium and beyond could get too interested in the matter of a female Astartes.
Harry of the Clock said:
Peacekeeper_b said:
KommissarK said:
I believe people dislike the female space marine argument because it smacks of an attempt at political correctness, focuses on the superficial, and fails to recognize what actually matters about a space marine.
Quoted for truth.
No male Sisters of Battle: Cultural/Traditional Decision
No Female Battle Brothers: Result of Pseudo-Super-Science genetic compatability.
Sisters of Battle - personal, all-female, guard of Goge Vandire, High Lord of the Administratum and the head of Ecclesiarchy at the time of the Age of Apostasy, they are the only official millitary of the Ecclesiarchy as it was forbidden for them to have MEN at arms. So they took the Adepta Sororitas as they were all-female.
Space Marines - created from the genetic material of the Emperors clones, the Primarchs, which were obviously all-male as the Emperor was male (and it is stated in varius sources that the two lost primarches were mentioned as brothers). The differences in male and female bodily chemistry makes it impossible for a female to receive implants and all that stuff that was destined to end up in a male body.
Im pretty *&^%$ sure thats what I said, only more elaborate.
And for the record, it wasnt forbidden to have MEN at arms until after the Age of Apostasy. And the Sisters of Battle evolved from the Brides of the Emepror who were originally a sect of female warriors called the Daughters of the Emperor that Goge enlisted during his reign.
I know. Just wanted to make it more elaborate and give AWolf and his heretical followers some hints were to lurk instead of going for the stupid ideas in the OPs first post.
And the Ecclesiarchy had Frateris Templar which ended up in a place now known as the Storm of Emperors Wrath or smthn like that. They were en route to quell the rebellion of Sebastian Thor.
Harry of the Clock said:
Space Marines - created from the genetic material of the Emperors clones, the Primarchs, which were obviously all-male as the Emperor was male (and it is stated in varius sources that the two lost primarches were mentioned as brothers). The differences in male and female bodily chemistry makes it impossible for a female to receive implants and all that stuff that was destined to end up in a male body.
If you would like to know more then I would recommend visiting the Lexicanum or other 40k wiki.
Actually there was this one thing that could allow females to become Astartes. Although very Dolph Lundgren like.
The Cursed 21st Founding of the Adeptus Astartes. But I wouldn't recommend making an official chapter out of it, rather an experiment. Some forces in the Imperium and beyond could get too interested in the matter of a female Astartes.
Actually the Primarchs are refered to as the Emperors offspring or children. They contain his DNA but certainly modified or mutated, and considering some of them ended up with extra eyes or wings one of them being female is not beyond the bounds of possibility.
What we know about the 2 Lost Primarchs is extremely limited, they were originally intended to be blank slates for players to create their own chapters. All in all what do we know, in Dan Abnetts the Lightning Tower he refers to them as brothers, but that's not conclusive as we get no other information (additionally the editorial control over the Horus Heresy is not the tightest, Sanguinus is black haired in the books). There is some other stuff in the First Heretic but I havn't got around to reading it yet.
There is material here worth putting it use, poo-pooing it is unconstructive at best.
I have bumped heads with people on this forum about female space marines. There is no background evidence that a space marine (primarch geneseed modified) can be female, there never has been (the 'evidence' of power armoured female models in the 80s were never labelled as marines regardless of what some people claim).
There is however plenty of evidence of biologically modified humans, whether abhumans, temple assassins or ad mech projects. Thus a modified female warrior wearing power armour is not impossible and should exist somewhere. They will act and appear in always like a space marine, they just won't actually BE a space marine. Unfortunately most people insist that they BE LITERAL space marines, it's not good enough otherwise.
I also personally don't like female space marines in the same way I don't like Red Orks, male sisters of battle or Tyranids that like to debate philosophy. The setting is defined as much by its limitations as it is by its allowances. Remove limitations and it just becomes an unregonisable mess.
Now having said that, the OP made it explicitly clear this was a non canon discussion. He wasn't trying to shove it down people's throats or claim that it was the truth.
Therefore, with that massive CAVEAT, the only people posting in here should be those who have something constructive to say WITHIN the parameters set in the original post. This isn't a flame thread about whether female marines are real, the evidence for it or the reasons they SHOULD exist. That was made explicitly clear in the original post.
Hence why I, despite not being partial to the idea in the first place, made a constructive post early in the thread. I do not agree with the OP, but as they clearly prefixed the whole thing with 'unofficial, non canon, help please' I am more than happy to flex some creativity to provide suggestions under those parameters.
Anyone who cotinually whinges in this thread is trolling and going off topic becuase the original topic has nothing to do with whether female marines exist, should exist, or need to exist.
Hellebore
@Hellbore
I will take some of that blame for pushing the discussion towards how "appropriate" and how "canon" it would be to have female space marines. But the core of my earlier post was to say that the best means of adding female space marines would probably be to just say that they exist, the pseudo-science is different, and that all chapters contain both male and female marines.
I think it is very much against the core principles of the space marines and what they stand for to put such a focus on something as petty as gender. Also, the thing I keep trying to state is that when developing a space marine character, it is critical to consider just how they are shaped by their views of chapter, primarch, and Emperor. Even blackshields will have a notion of this, even if it is kept private. I feel that it is highly inappropriate to have a space marine character who does not have any views on such things (or rather, to focus purely on the mechanics of the space marine implants). Yes, the implants help define what it means to be a space marine, but they are not the only part of being a space marine, nor the most important.
Personally, I find the OP's ideas to be a tad bit on the extreme side (in terms of just how heretical they might be viewed, heck, they sound more like adversaries than the Angels of Death of Him on the Throne), and that it would be just as effective to say the female character comes from the Ultramarines.
KommissarK said:
Personally, I find the OP's ideas to be a tad bit on the extreme side (in terms of just how heretical they might be viewed, heck, they sound more like adversaries than the Angels of Death of Him on the Throne), and that it would be just as effective to say the female character comes from the Ultramarines.
Yeah but there should be most definitely an Iron Maiden and a Twisted Sister chapter. Rule of Cool. 
Alex
@Hidaowin, read the First Heretic then, you'll find some info there 
That or lurk.
@Hellebore, a discussion is a discussion. If I do not agree with something I will take part in it to show other solutions.
My friend is buying a new car so I adviced him to buy an actual car and not a ****** mobile with two front seats only. Wasn't my problem but point was taken.
The trick is to troll in a way that makes OP want to explore more of what is canon, and eventualy make some changs, when it is still largely unexplored istead of going for sloppy non canon as presented in his post.
And to lurk for valuable info rather than going for some unballanced crap from rpg.net that makes them more like adversaries then an actuall playable idea.
Harry of the Clock said:
@Hidaowin, read the First Heretic then, you'll find some info there
That or lurk.
@Hellebore, a discussion is a discussion. If I do not agree with something I will take part in it to show other solutions.
My friend is buying a new car so I adviced him to buy an actual car and not a ****** mobile with two front seats only. Wasn't my problem but point was taken.
The trick is to troll in a way that makes OP want to explore more of what is canon, and eventualy make some changs, when it is still largely unexplored istead of going for sloppy non canon as presented in his post.
And to lurk for valuable info rather than going for some unballanced crap from rpg.net that makes them more like adversaries then an actuall playable idea.
Or to post without giving a **** about your opinion; that's another option.
Alex
Harry of the Clock said:
@Hidaowin, read the First Heretic then, you'll find some info there
That or lurk.
@Hellebore, a discussion is a discussion. If I do not agree with something I will take part in it to show other solutions.
My friend is buying a new car so I adviced him to buy an actual car and not a ****** mobile with two front seats only. Wasn't my problem but point was taken.
The trick is to troll in a way that makes OP want to explore more of what is canon, and eventualy make some changs, when it is still largely unexplored istead of going for sloppy non canon as presented in his post.
And to lurk for valuable info rather than going for some unballanced crap from rpg.net that makes them more like adversaries then an actuall playable idea.
Yeah I might do that, if you read the OP more carefully you'd note that the chapters presented there are renegade (note not chaos) chapters.
Also there is practically no hard canon or levels of canon in 40k unless anyone really thinks Space Marines wield multilasers.
Every individual GMs interpretation is going to differ by degrees or by orders of magnittude, taking a dismissive attitude towards opinions other than your own is unhelpful at best and smacks of One-true-wayism and narrowminded obstinancy and trolling at worst.
I did admit trolling 
Couldn't help myself seing such crap 
But still I did give some advice
I think 
sarcasm filter on please
and what if big strong mushroom ork warboss fell in love with cute goth nun with gun (called Adepta Sororitas), and their impossible love wins through all that evil wh40k bigotry and then give fruit ? A girl for that. (half girl as orks dont have gender, and dont mention how they conceive) Do that cute little half mushroom can join space marines? (only girl chapter) or be found in one of fortress vault as little power armour suprisse with power klaw? Could she then borrow ritual dress from dark angel librarian, share drink with space puppy, or talk about how psykers are evil with black templar (she will have hatred:psykers from her mum) or share shooting tips with Smurfs recruit (half orc should have same accuracy as ultramarines from certain non existant movie)...
no!
sorry...
im WH40k puritan...
full of nerd rage...
Hellebore said:
I don't entirely disagree, but I'm kind of interested in concepts you can't use unless you have female marines.
No self respecting Male chapter are going to call themselves the Crimson Gorgons or the Imperial Valkyries or the Deathspinners, but they make fine names for distaff chapters.
AluminiumWolf said:
Hellebore said:
I don't entirely disagree, but I'm kind of interested in concepts you can't use unless you have female marines.
No self respecting Male chapter are going to call themselves the Crimson Gorgons or the Imperial Valkyries or the Deathspinners, but they make fine names for distaff chapters.
Well, in fact there are the Blood Gorgons, Traitor marines 
Whenever the topic of Female Space Marines pops up in this forum, it generates a big argument, but what I never hear mentioned is why your female players are so opposed to playing a male character. Women are usually less uptight about gender issues than males, and I have a male player in my Dark Heresy campaign who chose to play a female assassin, just because he found a cool miniature that he liked. Why are your female players more uptight than that? I suspect that it is not the character's male genitals that they are concerned with, but their male personality traits. If they don't want to play a male Space Marine because they think males are too violent and not sensitive enough, then guess what? Said female will not enjoy playing Deathwatch regardless of the Space Marine's gender! Sensitivity and compassion are considered sins among Space Marines, no matter what kind of genitals they have under their armour! There is nothing even remotely feminine about the concept of this game- genetically engineered super-warriors massacring enemies on sight- to hell with talking over their differences! Do you really think that just saying some Space Marines have boobs will make your female players enjoy a violent/stereotypically "macho" game? I seriously doubt it. Try it if you want, but I can almost guarantee that they would be much happier playing Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader...
Adeptus-B said:
Whenever the topic of Female Space Marines pops up in this forum, it generates a big argument, but what I never hear mentioned is why your female players are so opposed to playing a male character. Women are usually less uptight about gender issues than males, and I have a male player in my Dark Heresy campaign who chose to play a female assassin, just because he found a cool miniature that he liked. Why are your female players more uptight than that? I suspect that it is not the character's male genitals that they are concerned with, but their male personality traits. If they don't want to play a male Space Marine because they think males are too violent and not sensitive enough, then guess what? Said female will not enjoy playing Deathwatch regardless of the Space Marine's gender! Sensitivity and compassion are considered sins among Space Marines, no matter what kind of genitals they have under their armour! There is nothing even remotely feminine about the concept of this game- genetically engineered super-warriors massacring enemies on sight- to hell with talking over their differences! Do you really think that just saying some Space Marines have boobs will make your female players enjoy a violent/stereotypically "macho" game? I seriously doubt it. Try it if you want, but I can almost guarantee that they would be much happier playing Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader...
Pssst... gender vanity. Many females believe they are really the better gender; don't tell anyone I said that though, my reputation will be shot. Women can be very touchy about that, they don't want guys to understand that there is a sense of rivalry there. And they can be really tough on anyone who says such out aloud.
Alex
ak-73 said:
In case you didn't notice: we're not in Canon-land anymore. Not even close.
Anything goes.
Alex
Alleluya!
miggel said:
Given that Gorgons are female, it would certainly work better as the name of a chapter of girl marines.
Other really only appropriate for all-female chapter names might include:-
the Thousand Fates (like the Three Fates, but More. Probably have a sideline in precognition.)
Spite Witches
Grey Harpies
Blood Sirens
Medusas
Chrome Sphinxes
Brass Nagas
Death *******
ak-73 said:
Pssst... gender vanity. Many females believe they are really the better gender; don't tell anyone I said that though, my reputation will be shot. Women can be very touchy about that, they don't want guys to understand that there is a sense of rivalry there. And they can be really tough on anyone who says such out aloud.
Alex
Great..so I can't say men are better than women becasue that,ll make me a male chauvinist pig-dog, but they can say that woman are better than men and that makes them what? So much for 'equality of the sexes' huh?
Oh right..women were the second class sex, so they can say what they want...
But if I can get my DH players into the Warhammer Fantasy world that's hiding in the Halo Stars, I see no reason why a rogue chapter cna't be all female..like a 'failed' experiment flushed down the void toilet...just that this Mariness managed to get over it and still regain some sense of duty; of course, don't make it like a real chapter with all the bells and whistles...but the odd Black Armoured Marine with a higher ppitched voice than most Astartes can be all right for one player or two at most; a whole Kill-team of them might be..well, overkill.
Braddoc said:
ak-73 said:
Pssst... gender vanity. Many females believe they are really the better gender; don't tell anyone I said that though, my reputation will be shot. Women can be very touchy about that, they don't want guys to understand that there is a sense of rivalry there. And they can be really tough on anyone who says such out aloud.
Alex
Great..so I can't say men are better than women becasue that,ll make me a male chauvinist pig-dog, but they can say that woman are better than men and that makes them what? So much for 'equality of the sexes' huh?
Women don't say this. But let's say... the above thought comes to their mind occasionally.
But then again we're generalizing here. Just like there is all kinds of guys (some jerks, some bros), there is all kinds of gals.
Other than that I need to get outta here, I have already said too much.
Alex
Kitchen Reavers
Mop Mistress
Angry Cheerleaders
Death Bunnies
again, sorry...