In your opinion what would be the best tank with the best skills (starting) and ones down the road.

If you have an opinion of wizards and archers, throw a couple tidbits this way too.

Tancradus said:

Do you want a warrior, or a tank? The first is a combat machine, the second is an invulnerable object. Totally different applications.

And ae you talking vanilla Descent, or Advanced Campaigns?

Best warrior possible with the best sought after skillset.

Road to Legend.

Tancradus said:

Alternate option 2:
Almost any of Laughlin (hardest hitter), Hawthorne (Reach bonus), Tahlia (extra Guard bonus) or Varikas (slightly weaker initially, but with free fatigue to help fuel Knight): Starting skill Knight: Additional Skill Unmoveable. Then add Weapon Mastery and maybe BattleCry.

Ranged
lots of roughly equal options for heroes, so the best range hero often is chosen for his non combat ability - eg Kirga's antispawn, Silhouettes speed and ability to dodge/rest etc.
Option 1 is the Rapid Fire machine - Rapid Fire, a fatigue upgrade or two, Precision and some combat bonus skills like Eagle Eye, Master Archer (the strongest later, but quite weak early on and doesn't work with the excellent copper/silver ranged weapons that gve you a single dice reroll (ie almost never miss), have stronger than average dice for their level and pierce bonuses but don't have any surge use capability), Inner Fire or even Blessing.
A lot of people dismiss Blessing because it doesn't grow with campaign levels. My experience is that you don't need the little extra's so much at higher campaign levels (particularly for the ranged and magic users, who are often clearing smaller monsters and leaving the super tough stuff to the melee hero who has higher DPS output usually anyway) but every little bit of damage you can get in copper level is priceless, so I quite like Blessing myself.
Option 2, well, its simply inferior to option 1 in general. But it's Laurel, with Lucky. Then Blessing (IMO, see above), Inner Fire, maybe Marksman - I'd actually prefer Precision myself. Laurel can end up being the hardest hitting hero of them all, but she provides the OL with a lot of cheap CT being a 8/1 for 3CT.

Magic
Landrec or Carthos: Starting skill, Quick Casting, then Prodigy, Blessing (see above) and Inner Fire. Spiritwalker should be in the mix somewhere if possible, possibly even with Quick Casting.

Everyone will have subtlely different favourites, but I think that is the most bang for you buck in general.
Other extremely important skills are Wind Pact, Leadership and Acrobat.

Acrobat is a must if you want to sprint through dungeons before the overlord knows what hit him. A fast acrobat will activate the glyph hence giving you the option to "teleport" next to the leader and the exit not to mention the treasure and bypass 3 or 4 rounds of grinding through. And the overlord can't do anything because you just appear from nowhere ans slaughter everything. The most broken character i have seen so far is zyla who has the acrobat by default since she has fly she is immune to melee and has 1 Conquest. She is definetely the best for dungeons. It was with her that for the first time we stormed through 3 levels of dungeons without the OL ever cycling his deck. As for everything else i quite agree with corbon and will like to add as he said also that maybe +1 damage may sound small but in the copper you will find out that upgrades even in dices make a huge difference as we discovered when we suffered 2 TPK against LT's and one was even Merrick (for the love of god). So we through all our money about 5 or 6 thousands we were saving for secret training and skills into dice upgrades, picked up mighty (i wanted melee mastery but it was burned to the ground) and suddenly the 4+ our melee fighter got by 2 dices and 2 damage from mighty seemed to double his strength. The reason is that when you are facing big armored monsters 4 or 5 armor in copper the extra 1 or 2 damage is in truth double strength since if you were doing 6 average before and you raised it to 8 or 9 now it means you will be causing double damage now. Anyway our whole game strategy is based on the outdoor encounters where the real campaign is played out since in the LT battles it is where the game is won or lost. You must not get a location that will screw you (quite many of them) be packed with power potions, and have trained alot of characters so you can do big amounts of damage even in the copper level. Sir alric with silver beasts is pretty unkillable once the overlord hits 3 or 4 event treachery if he is smart and doesn't overdo it. Our OL had already killed our whole party twice so he was quite cocky (a 30/5 ironskin, unstoppable with REGENERATION 5 guy can do that in copper) but once we managed to thin the numbers of the razorwings and hellhounds leaving only 2 on board he again didn't chose to leave running around hitting people hoping to kill our mage but we managed to not miss in 4 attacks in a row (it is more difficult that it sounds) and bring him down before he heals him back to full strength with the treachery card empower) It was a day to remember and quite a crippling blow since that round the level became silver and he had flee he would have come back an immortal guy with 60/7 ironskin and gold beasts. A poor decision that we are still celebrating today. I LOVE THIS GAME.

Of course Corbon's review doesn't take into account the promo characters.

Nara the Fang is pretty high damage output melee fighter herself (with pretty decent movement too). The same skill kit described for others by Corbon is ok with her. Karnon is much undervalued in AC. Being immune to frost is cool, because it means his stuff can only be destroyed by Crushing Blows...and having destroyed items is a real prolem. Also, the fact he has only 2 initial skills doesn't matter much, since everyone begins with one skill anyway and having 5 initial trait dice means being an absolute monster when it comes to damage dealing in the first part of the campaign, which is also the most important.

For ranged monsters, a couple promotional heroes should be mentioned if you want a complete overview of the game: Tobin and Tatianna. Tatianna is comparable to Silouette (1 less fatigue) but has a far stronger (on my opinion) ability, allowing her one teleport to tamalir per dungeon level/area. STROOOONG. Tobin is simply the hardest ranged hitter of the game. Eagle's Eye is always fine with this guy, just like Blessing and Inner Fire, but also Master Archer, since most ranged weapons have nice surge to range conversion and he enjoys shooting for distance! He can definitely get stronger than any other ranged hero, but remember that differently from most of them, he's a tank and not a runner, so you'll need someone else to go around and pick-up stuff.

Mages: Andira has nice damage potential thanks to her Pierce2, but you must be careful when you use her. Her good point on Landrec and Carthos is she's little beefier and faster. Anyway, she really enjoys Spiritwalker...Get your tank ahead and incanalate spells through him on adjacent (to him) enemies...I faced her once and she was pretty nasty, especially with Breath weapons. Brother Gherinn is definitely one of strongest characters ever made. For a mere conquest value of 3, he's 12HP and 2Armor build (which is tankish for a mage), with 3 full magic trait dice and the opportunity of trading 1hp to make Aimed attacks. I don't know you, but we tend to roll misses a lot and having a character (a pretty strong one too) who can re-roll when really needed isn't half bad. As for skills, go for more damage, but he can also enjoy some extra HP from Fighting skills, since he tends to sacrify them. Also challara is nice. Very specialized mage with a familiar able to empty a room or corridor once per dungeon level, at least at the beginning of the campaign...I wouldn't underestimate her. Any kind of mage build is ok with her. Thorn and Astarra aren't the highest damage dealers among mages, but their abilities are so useful, I'd definitely consider them top-tier on par with Landrec or Gherinn. Shiver may be nasty, if you have a guarding character with knockback nearby (you knock the enemy with your guard order on his adjacent tiles and see the bad guy get 4 damage for each movement). Must have skills for this guy are Aura (useless with other characters, but getting from Aura4 to Aura5, really increase the death potential of Shiver's own ability) and Water Pact (remember to use lots of guard orders and knock enemies closer to you!). Finally Kel. Exactly same build as Andira with much stronger ability. Doesn't really add damage, but being able to ignore obstacles and models when tracing line of sight for attacks makes up for anything else. Also, she ignores Shadowcloak, which is used by one of the Leutenants and the nasty Dark Elves (and anyone on a tree tile). Probably absolutely the best "battlemage" of the game, even better than Gherinn.

you are either playing with some weird home rules or you are missing basic stuff. Shiver has only aura on the overlords turn. So no Knockback will not work or telekinesis if it was available in the AC. So shiver with 3 CT is pretty lame since you get a guy with a mediocre ability which become close to useless in silver/gold and you have a 3 CT 0 armor guy pretty much worst of the mages.

karnon has indeed 5 dices and his starting skills don't matter but having 5 dices is undesirable in the AC cause you always go at max 4 so you can roll for more damage with fatigue. If you have 5 dices to start then you are stuck with it with no chance to change the output of your dices with fatigue ever. Also i don't like big bully fighters with 1 armor.

Tobin is a promotional character that anyone who uses him in his campaign is just asking for trouble. FFG didn't publish him but another company did and then FFG adopted him and he is the most broken thing you will ever see in a FFG game. A 16 wounds 2 armor guy with the ability to destroy anything that is stupid enough to stay away from him.

Andira really? She is considered also one of the weakest mages with 3CT and a ability that you will probably never use unless you can get spiritwalker. Good luck on that by spending 4 weeks away and also buying a 2500 stock market item in order to cross to the sercet location that you can train it.

After 5 campaigns i have realized that no mage is worth more than 2 CT since there are plenty great mages with 2CT that are going to die as hard as these 3CT. The only exception is the battlemage which is an interesting guy.

As about brother grim well a 3 fatigue 3 speed guy? Really? So a mage that is as slow as tank and has the fewest fatigue in the game? Nah i'll pass, mages are squishy enough without self destructing by sacrificing wounds and being slow as hell.

Tancradus said:

In RtL, Nanok is the best warrior. His armor grows so thick that OLs all around the world complain about him. On top of that, he has a speed of 4 and 4 fatigue, which is rare for a tank, who are usually 3/3 in these aspects. He then got nerfed in SoB (-2 armor) because he was too strong in RtL.

Enduring would be a good starting skill for him, but I'd prefer Weapon Mastery anyway because warriors, as the hardest hitters, need to hit as hard as possible to take on bosses, and because he starts with only 2 dice, so he has to compensate for his lack of natural punch. I've heard some heroes complain that they cannot win against Lieutenants because they do not deal enough damage, so at the beginning of the campaign, heroes should really focus on skills that add damage. If Weapon Mastery is not available in the starting draw, Mighty is a fine replacement.

Unmovable (which I think is strictly better than Knight on anyone with less than 5 speed) would be nice for him, too.

Drglord, you seem to be missing something. You make guard attacks during the Overlord's turn. Hence if you make GUARD attacks to knockback enemies on tiles adjacent to Shiver, they get the full 4-5 damages (depending on wether he has Aura or not). Shiver isn't definitely a top tier in this game but this combo is pretty strong against anything without Unmovable or Ironskin.

About Karnon I believe you're mistaken...You can roll up to 5 dice during copper campaign 3 of which can be silver. Hence, despite Karnon is not so good in vanilla (he can't spend fatigue or use power potions to increase his damage potential), he's pretty proficient in AC. Also, I forgot he ignores Fear, which adds to his damage potential against some nasty big guys. I don't like very much big guys with 1 armor either. But here I was not discussing about tanks, but damage dealers...otherwise I'd be insane if I didn't mention Nanok and Corbin, which are the best tanks of the game.

Actually, if it's damage dealing we're talking about, Krutzbeck is in the bunch. He's pretty strange to use, but he can be absolutely devastating during his own turn. Just be careful about traps and remember that to make him perfect for AC you need to complete the Rumor (from SoB) that lowers his CT by 1. Also Ironskin (from Rumor) and Unstoppable (from Skill) may be really helpful for this guy. Also Trenloe is far better in AC, since his ability becomes more useful with the progression of the campaign...also, re-rolling the green die can often make the difference. Not one of the best damage dealers in the game, but a fair substitute if you can't find anything better.

Tobin is by all means an official character. I don't give any importance to the circumstances that brought him into being or the simple fact that he's definitely broken. He exists and if someone asks me about the best damage dealers in the game I have to take him into account. Astarra is broken, Talia is broken, Nanok is broken. Simply put, characters are ill balanced, but the game is overall balanced by the heroes random pick. This is it. It's not really necessary that in every single tread where Tobin is mentioned someone remembers he's broken AND designed by someone else who (by the way) gained FFG approval.

Andira isn't as easy to use as Landrec or Carthos, but she's still very usable, especially once you get your hands on Spiritwalker and/or a Breath weapon. Sahla is definitely one of the worst mages in the game, Andira isn't broken, but she fulfills her purpose. 2CT mages are either 12HP 0Armor or 8HP 1Armor, meaning they're not as hard to kill as Andira is. Math, nothing more, nothing less.

Gherinn is slow. Well, yes...but Gherinn is a mage tank, not a mage runner. Simply put, you don't play Gherinn the same way you play Astarra. Full stop. Gherinn is a slow moving death bringer who can afford sacrificing a few wounds when really needed thanks to his really high (for a mage) Armor. Saying Gherinn is weak compared to other mages because of his slowness is like saying Tobin is weak compared to other Ranged heroes because of his low Fatigue and Speed. I'm fairly sure no-one here thinks so. Anyway, again, he's a monster at damage dealing. I believe he can (on average) deal more damage than Landrec, since he can re-roll blanks on power dice (which becomes really important when you roll silver or gold dice) AND misses when it really matters.

Karnon, Andira and Shiver are all characters who are pretty good in vanilla, but bottom of the barrel in RtL.

-pw

I guess the above post cleared it up for you. Since we are talking about RTL here all these characters you said are pretty much bottom of the barrel as he said.

I'll let you know as soon as I tried them...which might never come to be since at the moment I've filled my "character selection" with tons of heroes made with Antistone's Herogen and getting hands on original characters isn't quite easy. I don't consider Andira, Karnon or Shiver top tiers, by the way, I was just pointing out how they have pretty much high damage output potential. The simple fact that damage output isn't enough to make a great character is something else. Besides, has anyone ever used them during AC or is everything just Forum Speculation (and I'm putting myself in the "forum speculating" bunch)?

Well we have both andira and shiver and it was out of need as they were the only mage in the group 3 selection that had left (meaning we picked other cool characters from the other 3 group 3 selections). In my opinion any mage above 2CT is kinda bad. Mages will be the targets and die so they are free CT. I haven't played the yeti but even though it looks good anyone who has played AC will know that you never train a 5th dice in order to have room for fatigue boost.

By the way that guard knockback thing is kinda lame. Since alot of people think that they will be playing against an AI overlord and not a himan being which clearly won't allow that kind of stuff. Not to mention by silver campaign this ability is useless as 4 wounds is a scratch. The only good thing is that you are immune to beastmen in the whole copper and and most of silver as humanoids is the last choise of upgrading as they are the worst of the bunch.

I noticed that you had a fighter with no starting skills in magic take the skill vampiric blood, can he do that? I thought he had to stick to combat.