I'm really disappointed with the Techmarine Advance on pg 85 of Rites of Battle. After seeing that the tactical marine can start out with a combat shield, I got really excited to look up my advance. Techmarines pay 500 to receive a talent they already have, and one COMMON cybernetic. Who is going to spend 500 experience on a cybernetic that costs 10-15 requisition?

Check the Errata here . The Techmarine actually gets the Talented: Tech-Use talent, and an Exceptional Craftsmanship Bionic Implant.

I chose to be a Salamander Techmarine. With toughness 50 (not at all high for a Salamander Techmarine), I am immune the measly d10 damage that fire causes. I take the machine trait, and I get to add my armor points to the fire damage I am already immune to. At rank 3, Salamanders become immune to being set on fire. Salamanders have early access to a special Adamantine cloak, which make them immune to fire. As an innate Salamander ability, I get a +10 to resist being set on fire, which I am already immune to FOUR TIMES OVER!

As for the fluff, I really like the flavor of any of these powers individually, but with all of the overlap, I'm feeling like little thought was actually put into it. I will never use any of these cool abilities, because fire could never have hurt me in the first place. When I reach Rank 3, my solo mode ability does not improve in any way, which is probably the worst part, mechanic-wise.

In the errata weapon table (which I find myself not a huge fan of in general) the Astartes Shotgun has the same damage and Penetration as a Bolter, though the Assault Shotgun has better damage (by one) than a Bolter and still has the same Pen and a better rate of fire. Also the Raven Shotgun from First Founding loses 3 damage from the profile of the standard Astartes Shotgun and loses its semi-auto rate of fire. So I guess what I'm asking is was all this on purpose?

Because those changes seem a little inconsistent with fluff and each other, not to mention that with those weapon profiles coupled with some of the special ammo for shotguns put forward in RoB the Assault Shotgun becomes the unquestioned king of close quarters battle. With shredder rounds in an assault shotgun you have +1 damage and Pen over a bolter while having the same semi-auto rate of fire, with the option of a full-auto rate, it still has tearing and it also has scatter for extra close combat grossness. For 14 Requisition with a Distinguished Renown requirement (for the ammo). Or for 11 Requisitions you could lose one Pen and scatter to get Felling (1) and tearing, with no Renown requirement at all.

I'm just saying that seems a little unbalanced to me, especially seeing as how the Bolter is supposed to be better than the shotgun at killing heavily armored folks.

TempestSatori said:

Ok, I am maybe too much biased in this question, as I admire the Raven Guard chapter quite a lot (and therefore:) is it only me, or does the Raven Guard marines mostly get second-rate stuff in the First Founding book compared to let's say White Scars, Salamanders, Blood Angels, Dark Angels - in short ALL the other chapter marines??

dracopticon said:

They get an awesome solo mode that stays on all the time, good attack and defense patterns, good advances and they can sneak pretty much better than anyone and they can do it in power armor. I think they did just fine.

I was wondering if they meant to drop the damage of their shotgun though because the item's description says that being silenced doesn't make it lose damage. It is perfectly silenced (which I guess also needs a little rules clarification since it isn't mentioned exactly what that means, does it act like the staker pattern and the sniper rifle or does it act like the stalker when used with stalker bolts?)

Also that errata weapon table missed out on the Exotic weapons from the DW core book.

Scoates said:

One thing worth noting is that, with the increased "being on fire" damage caused by Astartes Flame Weapons (1d10+4, instead of 1d10), there's an established precedent for more intense flames dealing greater damage.

Beyond that, Resistance (Heat) doesn't only apply to Tests to avoid catching on fire. It applies to all Tests made to resist heat-based effects.

I don't want the GM to have to invent stronger fire to justify my abilities. In my experience, that usually ends up making me pay for my strengths.

Scoates said:

1. While it might be true for the Salamander Techmarine, the other Salamanders don't have your soak. Also a Chaos Marine with a flamer can cause fires that could get through your soak of 10+: 1d10+4 E. Behold Righteous Fury due to Touched by the Fates.
2. When you are set on fire you also gain 1 Fatigue point. At rank 3+, your Techmarine won't. Also note this: you are not immune to flaming attacks. You are only immune to the effects of being lit on fire as per page 260, if we go by the wording in FF. Although RAI might be different.
3. You don't have access to the Salamander's mantle. You may have the honour of being given one, if the GM permits and you expend SW on it. And it's a high honour indeed: other Astartes need to be Hero renown to get a less effective piece of wargear... So it stacks. So what? The nice thing is that you can use it to temporarily help other people through fire. You are a Salamander, right? You want to help people? Also it does protect any equipment from being set on fire.
4. Resistance(Fire). It doesn't help you avoid catching fire. It helps you resist the effects of heat. That could mean that when walking through a huge fire, you might have to take a T test and if you pass it, your PC gets only 2d10 E damage instead of 3d10+4 E or whatever.
5. Your Solo Mode ability does not improve? What am I reading? The Rank 5 buff is quite good and useful. You'll be the one to take on snipers or walk through artillery though. At Rank 7, your enemies get armour-ignoring 2d10+4 per round if set ablaze by an Astartes flamer. In general that will hurt Elite-tier enemies quite well (Chaos Terminators in particular will be unhappy), especially if you add in the damage everytime your Hellfire Flamer hits.
6. Inventing fires? It is common in other RPGs to have fires of different intensity and it makes sense too. I am currently thinking of the Rifts Burster OCC, btw. If you meet a Chaos Sorceror who is throwing warp-born fireballs at your team, you'll be happy to have your resistance/immunity.

Alex

In case they use this thread to help compile errors to correct for reprints: I noticed the Interaction keyword was omitted from the Command Skill description (p96 core). It did get listed in 'Table 3-1 Basic Skills' on (p93 core).

Just got Jericho Reach and got to the new solo mode/squad mode/ oath section and noticed that the new oaths have 2 squad modes, Faith is Our Shield and Stalwart Survivors, that are not in any book and also there is a Black Templar squad mode, Holy Vengeance, listed as one of the modes given by an oath.

Where are these squad mode abilities and should Holy Vengeance really be there?

HELP!

Cromagnum Man said:

Don't have JR yet but if what you say is true, then the standard procedure is to post the question to FFG via the "Rules Questions" link at the very bottom of the page and to post any eventual reply here. With regards to Holy Vengeance, it is probably not a mistake. Sounds like a powerful oath.

Are you sure that the new squad modes aren't buried somewhere in the book?

Alex

Cromagnum Man said:

Can't find it, too (Stalwart Survivors and Faith is Our Shield) and I looked in the Core Rulebook in Rites of Battle and First Founding

Did somebody found them so far - just the Book and the page is required, as I have (right now) every DW publication so far...

Some of them are probably abilities that had their name changed during development. Faith is our Shield, I would guess, is what Fury Preserves Us used to be called, given that Fury gives you a force field. I don’t know this for certain of course, but that would be my guess.

BYE

Sooooo... I have a Question regardless "Improved Bio-monitor" from Advanced Power-Armour History Tables (In Rites of Battle book), Skill of Artificier Table roll number 5. MK 6 Shoulder pad or Helm. Helm in particularly give AP 8 to the head, and " Improved Bio-monitors "

First of all:

Deathwatch corebook Page 161 states:

Bio-monitor and Injectors: If the internal cogitator
detects a problem with the wearer’s bio-signs, it can administer
pain suppressors, combat stimms, and anti-toxins. This provides
the following benefits:
• +10 to Tests resisting the Toxic Quality and similar poison effects.
• The pain suppressor reservoir has a total of 6 doses, each of which can be used to ignore Critical Effects for 1d10 rounds. The doses may be used in succession or staggered.
• If the wearer is Stunned, the effect lasts a maximum of one Round before the bio-monitor detects and negates it.

So. What mean "Improved Bio-monitor", provided by MK6 helmet, in game-mechanics terms ??

I could've though that it, actually, refers to improved "Autosenses" that MK6 has (judging from table 3-7), but, "roll" 6 on the same table (MK V parts) clearly states that you must use "autosenses" from MKV (actually degrading "Autosenses for any other Amour excetp "Heresy")

Also, if while rolling for Armour Mark i roll, say, "MKV Heresy", or "MKVI Corvus", and then on history roll "Skill of artificer" make roll of "6" for Heresy and "5" for corvus. In raw this will mean that my MKV "Heresy" Armour has part of another MKV "Heresy" Armour (same thing for "Corvus") - How would you treat it. Re-roll? As Written, just taking it as this particular part is of notable craftsmanship ?

My take has always been that the Bio-monitor was a mislabeling of the Auto senses as that's the only thing that makes sense.

The RAW also has you add or subtract one from the rolls on the history tables. If you roll parts of the same mark as your base armour you just don't pick that one(unless you just don't want to have any effect from the history.)

Regarding Wolf Senses ...

Wolf Senses specifically states that it must be used in Solo Mode, in the core rulebook. It is a Solo Ability, yes, and in its description says it must be used in Solo Mode.

However, on using Solo Modes in Squad Mode, Rites of Battle uses Wolf Senses as an example of using a Passive Solo Mode ability in Squad Mode for no cost in Cohesion.

Which is correct? I would assume Rites of Battle, since it is later, and a Space Wolf likely doesn't lose his ability to see in the dark because of teamwork.

Rites of Battle is correct, as it is a clarification of the Core Rules. Passive Solo Mode Abilities can be used for free in Squad Mode.

Gaire said:

I know that, yes, as it clarifies how Solo Mode abilities work. However, it does not clarify the text in the Wolf Senses ability, which is the only ability which specifically states that the Space Wolf must be in Solo Mode. For instance, the Ultramarines ability, which is Passive too, does not state this. That means that it can be used in Squad Mode.

Like I said, I lean towards your interpretation, but it specifically says otherwise.

That statement in the Core book about Wolf Senses only being usable in Solo Mode is overridden by the rules in Rites of Battle. Look at it logically: why would suddenly working as part of a team remove a Space Wolf's ability to perceive things incredibly well?

I know that. I know that it makes perfect sense for it to work in Squad Mode. Regardless, Rites of Battle does not say to remove the text in the Core Rulebook saying that Wolf Senses applies when 'the Space Wolf is in Solo Mode'.

This has not been clarified in errata, and it is why I am asking. I am not asking for a favourable interpretation, I am asking for an actual clarification. I am asking about the rules, not about common sense. As it is written, it's rather clear that Wolf Senses cannot be used in Squad Mode. The correct interpretation is obviously the opposite, but to many people, that isn't good enough (especially those that aren't native English speakers, for example).

It's realy very simple. The core book didn't have active or passive solo modes. You couldn't use any of them while in squad mode.

Rites of Battle intruduced the distinction between them and included a list. Wolf Senses is listed as passive. This means you can use it in squad mode freely.

Nathiel said:

It doesn't say 'ignore the text in the Wolf Senses ability', although it should. It is listed as Passive, which could be interpreted as you not being allowed to spend Cohesion to use it when in Squad Mode. Also, it could be listed as Passive for future reference, even though it can't be used in Squad Mode.

RoB P 225 - "Passive Solo Mode abilities function as normal when in Squad Mode. The Space Marine has free use of them at all times ."