Stormast said:

I'm all for not one-shotting a Hive Tyrant, and I don't mind nerfing the HB a little bit. As I said before, I mostly disagree with the reduction in Horde-damaging ability that the Dev took. Seeing as how anyone can use a Lascannon, I just don't see the tradeoff as being in the Dev's favor compared to the stuff other's can do.

Definitely true, that last sentence. I'd LOVE to see the Techmarine get a little attention. It would be nice not to need house rules to keep it from falling behind everyone else on the battlefield.

The Techie has his thing. He is **** resilient. That's not "impressive", but it may be a very cool asset to the team. I've seen a Blood Angel Techie fight normal orc troops : they could not hurt him. Could not. He was missing all his attack rolls, but it did not matter. That's nice to have

Then, for the killing stuff, I'd say you may as well rule that UD = +1D10, but I really think the Dev has lost a bit of his horde-smashing power, but not all his advantages in that. Do not forget he does it at range, before the real $h*t hits the real fan. And if he can reliably bring 20-40 mag Hordes to less than 50%, his job may well be done (and anyway, bringing a Horde under 20 before she reaches Melee is GOLD...).

Right now, I see the Dev less "I am the deadliness of the team" and more "I work for the team", but we'll see through playing

Stormast said:

That's certainly true of the Techmarine; they are serious tanks. My biggest complaint is the servo-arm and mechadendrites. Maybe it's because I have little experience with DH (and none with RT) but I can't for the life of me understand what benefit the utility mechadendrites have. Do they use your own skills? Give you a bonus? I honestly have no clue. That plus the lack of a true second attack are my main issues. I mean, even the servo-harness talks about characters that have multiple attacks, but there's no extra attacks in the Techmarine advances? It just doesn't fit.

I don't deny that the Dev is the best at range; that's all he has, after all. It's just that so much of the bonuses for attacking at range aren't reliant on being a Dev (Full-Auto +20, size bonuses to hitting a Horde, etc.) so other characters can grab similar weapons and be almost as good. The Dev, in turn, can't destroy things up close, be a fantastic healer, throw psychic powers around, etc.

Yeah all the dendrites things are complex. I tend to play it "as I feel", according to my GM's wishes, too.

The thing is, this errata clearly made the Dev much better at range than the others: he doesn't have to spend Req to get his Heavy Bolter, and with the standard Bolters only doing Semi-Auto, that clearly gives him an edge at range, much more than before (see those nasty Storm Bolters that could shoot 8 Metalstorm bolts in a Horde onf Full-Auto? Well now it's gonna be Semi-Auto, so much harder...).

I request that we do not clutter this thread further with the new errata pro/con debate and reserve it instead for rules clarification received through email. It'll make findign rules changes easier.

I'll start a new thread.

Alex

Balodek said:

These are special abilities not covered with a universal rule. Like the meltas old rule of +1d10 damage at short range they would be located in the accompaning text description of the weapon. The errata changes would put them there, since they state replace X on page ### with Y, or Add Z after paragraph B on page ###.

So yes, these special abilities are still in effect with the new weapon tables.

My god, walls of text.

Anyway, i got one thing that i think should be changed with the rules.

So, we all agree that tactical marines are kinda good leaders. They get command, just like tech marines get tech use, apothecarys get medicae, assult get pilot. But of all thoose classes the tactical marine is the only one who dosnt get +10 and +20 in his skill after some ranks.

Reason why i complain about it is that the black templar tactical marine i got in my group was interested of aiming for watch captain. since he isnt ultramarine he have to wait until rank 6 before he can get the +20 command that is needed for watch captain unless he gets first company veteran first and get the +20 command from there. Feels a bit bad that he spends fucktons of experience for a "prestige class" that he dont even want.

Also, because of that, it feels a bit pointless beeing anything else then a ultramarine for playing tactical that wants to be a great leader. Sure, they are great leaders, but let the other chapters have a chance also.

herichimo said:

The Power Fist and Chain fist list their Str bonus on the chart though, this implies that the optional rules do no take the hammers new bonus into effect.

Jackal_Strain said:

I would propose that future releases contain the traditional damage trends and that FFG be kind enough to a quick web release of the optional stats to coincide with the ones presented in the errata.

Oni San said:

Well, if you don't want it to based on your observation then it doesn't. Although I'm fairly certain the new optional weapon table takes this change into consideration. Considering the thunderhammer in both the original book and the errata do exactly the same base damage.

Its fairly clear the thunderhammer will get this special ability since its been "added/errata'd" into the original book's description. Therefore any thunderhammer will have the bonus strength, irrespective of the amount of base damage it does.

But if you still think that one little oversight (not putting the little symbol by the thunderhammer entry in the errata) in the errata means you don't get the strength bonus, thats on you. Just remember, the original melee weapon chart doesn't have the little symbol or thunderhammer listed in the notes section either, so that would mean you can't use the strength multiplier with the normal rules either, even with the errata'd description. .......right?

Nifelfang said:

I'm not sure how strict your GM is with elite advances, but if you state that your character is heavily investing his time and energy into learning leadership skills, and if you roleplay your character's efforts to become a good leader, then you should be able to buy Command as an elite advance at Rank 4. That's what elite advances are there for, to reflect roleplaying and to allow organic character development, and so you don't have to be railroaded by DnD style restrictions. A Black Templar Watch Captain sounds cool to me, so I hope your GM lets you get there easier!

herichimo said:

This missing symbol is what prompted my original question. After reading your response and filtering out the unecessary hostility, I think the simple answer is the optional weapon rules copied the old weapon charts. Since those old charts didn't have the symbol, the new optional charts also lacked that symbol. This leads me to suspect the optional rules will need (optional?) errata, and that the Thunderhammer gets the Strength bonus.

By reading final sanction I run over the Location where the broodlord hides...a Promethium Refinery which is " mostly untouched by the figthing and remains largely intact..." uhm, okay... so this highly intelligent and ancient genstealer hides on a great bomb of promethium awaiting to be blown into the orbit of avalos...sounds like a quick ending without heroic fighting; all the players need is the location and a few melter charges...

*******, wrong board, sorry***

Ciphias said:

It's a long abandoned promethium refinery.

Alex

For an injection of randomness, the fluff quote on page 28 notes that a Godwyn-Pattern Bolter is a 30 round weapon. Where as the errata and the original weapon table note it as 28 round. Was there a page number/ammo count mix up there? Since the Godwyn-Pattern Bolter in Blood of Martyrs is the correct 30 rounds.

Solitus said:

Total guess, but 28 is cleaner when divided by the RAW full auto rate of 4.

Charmander said:

Funny that's exactly what I thought too. But with the new ROF of course...

Alex

When using the optional new weapon stats (we seem to like them) what's the best way to handle the vehicle weapons in RoB?

Dreadnaught weapons (Autocannons and Hurricane Bolters) in particular.

Not to self-advertize yet again, you can use this post here for approximation:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

To make things more comparable, you can reduce damage by 1d10 and add +5 to the static damage and you'll see that it resembles the optional stats fairly well.

Alex

Here are official replies to my assorted questions (original thread can be found here ). I've tided up questions and answers to make everything clearer:

Q: Core rulebook exotic weapons weren't included in Errata 1.1, have they changed?
A: "For the meantime the exotic weapon rules from the Corebook are the ones that should be used."

Q: Described as more damaging but has the same damage as regular melta & Infernus Pistol. Should it actually be +16 to keep it in line with the Infernus Pistol? Also description states fine workmanship, but no craftsmanship level listed. Is this just fluff?
A: "The damage for the Conflagration Meltagun should be 2d10+16E. The fine workmanship in the description is not indicative of the weapon's base Craftsmanship, it is just flavour text."

Q: Armour History - Bring Death From Afar: Does this mean that a Heavy weapon (as it now counts as a basic weapon) never suffers any penalties when moving and firing on semi/full auto?
A: "it allows a wielder of a Heavy Weapon to move but still take the standard penalty for moving, while a wielders of Basic and Pistol class weapons get no penalty at all."

Q: Along with the Suspensor, Bring Death From Afar removes penalties for moving and firing. Does this mean you still get the bonuses for semi/full auto or not?
A: "With just the Suspensor you do not get the bonus when moving and firing, however if you have both the Suspensor and Bring Death from afar you can move and get the auto-fire bonus."

Q: The Astartes Plasma cannon's description states it only uses backpack ammo supply, so should it's clip size be 100 (as per Backpack Ammo Supply rules)?
A: "Yes, the Plasma Cannon's clip size is 100 rounds since it uses the Backpack Ammo Supply."

Q: Astartes Cyclone Missile Launcher - Description says it uses twin racks of ammo. With a clip size of 12, does it take 2x6 missiles or 2x12?
A: "The clip size of 12 represents the full capacity of the Cyclone Missile Launcher (both racks), so 2x6."

Q: Astartes Missile Launcher (Soundstrike) - Description states "auto-loader rapidly refills...allowing the Battle-Brother to fire the missiles of his choice". If the missile rack has multiple missile types, does this mean the marine can pick a specific type when it reloads or does it have to be pre-set?
A: "Each time you reload the Missile Launcher (every shot) you can choose what type of missile you want freely (from the missiles you have in your possession)."

Q: Astartes Sniper Rifle - How noisy are the "laser propelled crystallised toxin slivers" it fires? Should it be silent or at least have a reduced awareness as per other stealth weapons?
A: "As written the Astartes Sniper Rifle has no bonus against detection. It is up to the GM if he wants to include rules to make it more stealthy."

Q: Hesh Pattern Bolter - Is this really half the range, -2 damage and only Reliable (as opposed to never jams) compared to a regular Master-Crafted Bolter just to gain the Accurate Quality?
A: "Yes, the statistics written for the weapons are accurate."

Q: Guardian Bolt Pistol - Does "finely made" in the description actually mean Master Craftsmanship?
A: "Yes, the Guardian Bolt Pistol is a Master Craftsmanship weapon in the same way as the Hesh-Pattern Bolter."

Q: Weapon Upgrades - Do the requisition costs for these get added before or after the Craftsmanship multiplier?
A: "[weapon upgrades] have their own independent Craftmanship from the weapon they are attached to."

Q: Fire Selector - Presumably you get 2 free clips along with the Fire Selector? Is that weight part of the Fire Selectors weight or additional (assuming encumberence ever becomes a problem)?
A: "The additional +1 weight from the fire selector is all you should really worry about with that."

Q: Heavy Bolter - Is there anything stopping you taking out the backpack ammo supply and putting in a regular clip & vice versa, like some kind of complicated attachment mechanism or the fact you'd have the ammo loader tube flapping around? Should it take longer to "reload" between a backpack and normal clip?
A: "You can take out the backpack ammo supply and use clips instead, it is up to the GM how long this takes. Your marine would likely have a way to secure the ammo belt to stop it flapping around. Also, there is no reliable strap/hook for a heavy weapon. However, a marine can hold it in one hand temporarily (but not fire it) and set it down as needed."

Just as a side-note I hope that whoever prepares the next errata reads this and includes the Codex squad mode abilities for the chaplains oath and for Proteus special oath in the next version. Thanks.

Alex

I have a question about the requisition cost of the Crozius Arcanum. I know a Chaplin gets one for free but what is the cost for increasing the weapon quality, or are all Crozius considered to be of master craftmanship?

I have the same question about the Rosarius. I would also like to know the overload range for the Rosarius.

Sorry if this was answered before, I couldn't find it.

Thank you for your time,

Martial Hubris said:

I'm not sure about the Crozius Arcanum, though I don't think you can improve it any more. Whether it's already Master-crafted, I don't know.

The Rosarius doesn't overload. It's possibly the best piece of wargear in the game. Since higher craftsmanship for force fields just lowers the overload threshold, trying to upgrade the Rosarius is pointless.

The firestorm Multi-Melta

States that "If an attack roll using a multi-melta fails by five or more levels, the weapon flares out, dealing damage equal to the number of charges left in the fuel canister to and area equal to the weapon's blast radius."

When using a back ammo pack containing 100 melta charges.
And you somehow fail by 5 degrees, will you then use the weapons clip size of 6 or the ammo pack of a 100 charges.

And if you should use the back pack, will you then be able to rig a melta backpack into a 100 damage bomb?

Sarius said:

For the sake of both fairness to the player and discouraging the '100 damage bomb' idea, I would say that the backpack ammo supply's feed hose has a safety cutoff that would limit it to the weapon's clip size of flare-out damage.