Does an investigator with this item have to evade any monsters on their space before the effects of the Mi-Go Brain Case kicks in - trading locations with an investigator or monster?
It seems like this item could be useful for a weaker investigator to escape a strong monster that is in their space, because as I understand it, on the move phase, you must resolve any evasion or fights happening on the investigator's space before moving.
That's a very good question ~ there are similar types of scenarios whereby an investigator casts a spell during Upkeep, for instance...is that before or after moving the skill sliders (in my games, it's after...)? I would suspect that if I were to play it, the investigator would not roll an evade check, as the investigator is not actively evading (sneaking, skulking, etc.), but instead vanishing from sight and appearing elsewhere...now the poor investigator with whom you've traded spots will be subject to the evade/fight rule upon arriving (all the better if you can trade with another monster).
The Professor
Sola said:
Does an investigator with this item have to evade any monsters on their space before the effects of the Mi-Go Brain Case kicks in - trading locations with an investigator or monster?
It seems like this item could be useful for a weaker investigator to escape a strong monster that is in their space, because as I understand it, on the move phase, you must resolve any evasion or fights happening on the investigator's space before moving.
I'm fairly certain that you can use the item before fighting, but if you swap into a space with a monster you'd have to face it then. People can, of course, feel free to correct me. I feel that you can because you're not using normal movement, and when things happen simultaneously, the player chooses the order they happen (for example, you CAN battle a monster in your space, then swap out with the case, but again, you'd still have to battle any monster you end your movement in).
Though I just thought up an interesting question...If you engage with a monster and either evade or beat it in combat before using any movement points (say it started in your space), can you still use the Case? I say yes, since it's special movement, not really movement. Anyone else?
Oh! And the Professor: I'm sure people will pipe up and correct me on this, too, but the rules say "Take the following [upkeep] actions in Order: Refresh Exhausted Cards...Perform Upkeep Actions...Adjust Skills." And there you have it! Unless...there's something in the FAQ about it...
EcnoTheNeato said:
I'm fairly certain that you can use the item before fighting, but if you swap into a space with a monster you'd have to face it then. People can, of course, feel free to correct me.
Yep, this is the way I've always played it: whenever swapping positions with someone / something, you don't have to care about monsters in the area you're leaving, but you have to deal with monster(s) in the area you're arriving into. I'm not so sure I play the correct way, nor if this was clarified somewhere, but it seems to me the most thematically correct way for playing it
EcnoTheNeato said:
Though I just thought up an interesting question...If you engage with a monster and either evade or beat it in combat before using any movement points (say it started in your space), can you still use the Case? I say yes, since it's special movement, not really movement. Anyone else?
I'd have to disagree with you on this point. Entering combat with a monster makes your movement phase end. Rules say (cfr. pag. 8, first column, third paragraph) that "the investigator loses the rest of his movement points". Having no movement points, you cannot spend them in order to make the Mi-go brain case work.
The Professor said:
That's clearly wrong. There are three possibilities:
(1) An Upkeep spell should be interpreted as "any time during the Upkeep phase", meaning that it can happen either before or after Step 3: Adjust Skills of the Upkeep Phase.
(2) An Upkeep spell should be interpreted as "any time during the Upkeep phase", but it can only be cast BEFORE adjusting skill sliders because as soon as you adjust your skill sliders your Upkeep phase ends.
(3) An Upkeep spell should be intepreted as an Upkeep action, in which case it takes place during Step 2 of the Upkeep Phase (and, therefore, BEFORE adjusting skill sliders).
I'd learn towards #1, but you'll notice that there's NO valid interpretation of the rules which involves being able to use the spell only after adjusting skill sliders.
Regarding the OP's question: It boils down to whether or not we interpret the use of the Mi-Go Brain Case as an "attempt to leave a location or street area" (pg. 6 of the rules). It's tempting to say, "Of course you're attempting to leave; you will no longer be there." But I think the context of the rule in question is fairly clear: It means when leaving a space using the normal expenditure of movement points.
For example, consider a character who has evaded a monster but remained in the same Arkham location with that monster. They then draw an encounter card which results in them being moved to the street. Should such an investigator be forced to evade / fight the monster before resolving the encounter card?
I think neither the encounter card nor the Mi-Go Brain Case should prompt the encounter. However, I agree with Julia that if there's a monster in the location you're teleporting to, then you're clearly ending your movement there and need to "fight or evade each such monster" (pg. 8 of rules).
Justin Alexander said:
For example, consider a character who has evaded a monster but remained in the same Arkham location with that monster. They then draw an encounter card which results in them being moved to the street. Should such an investigator be forced to evade / fight the monster before resolving the encounter card?
I think neither the encounter card nor the Mi-Go Brain Case should prompt the encounter. However, I agree with Julia that if there's a monster in the location you're teleporting to, then you're clearly ending your movement there and need to "fight or evade each such monster" (pg. 8 of rules).
Well, doesn't the Paddy Wagon teleport also require you to Evade if you leave a space with a monster? You're not expending movement points with it either. To me the difference between PW and Mi-Go vs encounters that move you to the street is that the former two are movement phase, exactly when you need to interact with monsters already on the board, while you only deal with monsters in the encounter phase if they appear at your location/OW area. If you're leaving a space with a monster during the movement phase, need to Evade or fight.
Dam said:
Not a bad precedent, but I'm not sure it clears anything up. While the Patrol Wagon card is explicitly a move ("you may move to any street or location in Arkham", emphasis added), the Mi-Go Brain Case isn't (although it could certainly be interpreted as such).
Julia said:
I'd have to disagree with you on this point. Entering combat with a monster makes your movement phase end. Rules say (cfr. pag. 8, first column, third paragraph) that "the investigator loses the rest of his movement points". Having no movement points, you cannot spend them in order to make the Mi-go brain case work.
Ah, there we go. See all the answers we can get from reading? Thanks Julia! 
Echo,
Yes, I believe that much of this is open to interpretation...speaking of interpretation...
Justin,
I'm not eactly sure with what's "clearly wrong" but it appears as though we agree on at least one interpretation of the rules.
Other than Dam casting aspersions about players using KH 
, this site will be a ghost town when they ever get around to publishing the FAQ and we have nothing to interpret.
Dam said:
Well, doesn't the Paddy Wagon teleport also require you to Evade if you leave a space with a monster? You're not expending movement points with it either. To me the difference between PW and Mi-Go vs encounters that move you to the street is that the former two are movement phase, exactly when you need to interact with monsters already on the board, while you only deal with monsters in the encounter phase if they appear at your location/OW area. If you're leaving a space with a monster during the movement phase, need to Evade or fight.
This sounds in line with reply 8 on the Official Answers thread
"Monsters and movement as a result of an encounter (01/02/07)
When moved to another location by an encounter, you don't have to fight/evade monsters in either location. At least, not immediately. Combat as a result of such movement only occurs during the movement phase. During the encounter phase, you only have to worry about monsters popping up to attack you as a result of an encounter." (Kevin Wilson)
I think the key phrase is "combat as the result of such movement only occurs during the movement phase." According to Kevin's ruling, if you leave a location that has a monster on it during the Encounters Phase, you don't have to fight the monster. However, the ruling is worded to not grant the same exemption to movement that occurs during the Movement Phase. Therefore, the rules that govern movement during the Encounters Phase should not necessarily be applied to movement during the Movement Phase. Even if those rules were applied, the result would be the same: combat that results from movement would occur during the Movement Phase. And when you use the Mi-Go Brain Case, the Movement Phase is the current phase.
Also, on page 14, the rules say "When an investigator attempts to move out of an area containing a monster, or ends his movement in such an area, he must either fight the monster or evade it." However, on page 6, the rules say, "Each time an investigator attempts to leave a location or street area occupied by one or more monster markers, the investigator must either fight or evade each of the monsters there" (emphasis mine). I don't see anything that would suggest that you can only move by using movement points. Even if there were, page 6, which unlike page 14 deals specifically with movement during the Movement Phase, uses the word "leave," not "move." Even if you argue that use of the Mi-Go Brain Case doesn't officially count as "moving" because the card doesn't use the word "move," I don't see how anyone could reasonably argue that use of the Brain Case doesn't count as leaving a space.
Ah, that last paragraph REALLY gets to the thick of things. So yes, I was thinking about the semantics of "moving" in regards to movement (with the movement points, phase, and etc). But, alas, you go and stomp any potential thinking by saying they use the word "leave" instead! Hm, so it looks like if you're on a square with a monster, Mi-Go brain Case will NOT save you. Since you have to face the monster, and you can't use it afterwards, as Julia was kind enough to remind me that after facing a monster, one loses the rest of their movement points. Though I'm sure you can use it if you successfully evade the monster on the first try, however...
Yeah, that sounds right!
Thanks for all the input everybody, definitely gives us something to think about.
We are still fairly new to AH so we are constantly coming up with rules questions and the forums have been fantastic as a source of information.
EcnoTheNeato said:
But, alas, you go and stomp any potential thinking by saying they use the word "leave" instead! Hm, so it looks like if you're on a square with a monster, Mi-Go brain Case will NOT save you.
Heh. If it makes you feel any better, I house rule it the way you play.
The Professor said:
What's confusing you, exactly?
@Avec: Good cite. Clears that one up nicely.
avec said:
Even if you argue that use of the Mi-Go Brain Case doesn't officially count as "moving" because the card doesn't use the word "move," I don't see how anyone could reasonably argue that use of the Brain Case doesn't count as leaving a space.
Yeah, this has a lot of sense. Even if in my mind using an instant teleporter should be easier (and different) than sneaking from a Dhole using a motorcycle or the Patrol Wagon, rules seem to imply what Avec and Dam highlighted. Nonetheless, a FAQ entry covering such cases would be great :-)
Nice pun. Even if you didn't mean to, Julia!