The Nature of Heresy

By Gregorius21778, in Dark Heresy

Luddite said:

Gregorius21778 said:


Gerrymandering: (p.238 DotdG): my english is not good enough for this. What is the meaning?


Wow! This one's really wierd.

Gerrymandering is the administrative division of a voting electorate to give your own party an unfair electoral advantage.

So this implies that within Imperial society; within the Adepta, there is fair and open democracy.

This is completely against everything seen so far in 30 years of 40k canon isn't it? With the exception of the High Lords? Are they elected? IF so, perhaps gerrymandering would be part of that?

Not sure at all.

I don't think this is a very odd thing at all, and neither do I think that it might mean that there is a liberal 21th century democracy at work or even close to it. As far as I can see it just means that on some level you vote, maybe an oligarchic assembly or an aristocratic council, and these do in some way vote according to voting electorates.

Also I have never understood the talk about Imperial Citizens. For me there has only been the God-Emperor's subjects, never any kind of citizens.

[delete by author for being pointless]

Gregorius21778 said:


By the way…what other citizens but Imperial Citizens are their supposed to be? I do not think that their is any kind of accepted citizenship in the Imperium of Men that does not include being a citizen of…well, the Imperium. Meh…

As I see it, it's a matter of degrees of service.

The common person in the Imperium is beneath all notice, and is little more (in the grand scheme of things) than mortal fuel in the grand mechanism. For example, the common manufactory worker, miner, agri-labourer and so forth. This common mass of people serve the needs of their world and support the Imperium indirectly - an agri-worker's crop will contribute towards the planetary tithe, but it does so as part of that planet's obligation to the Imperium.

Above them, in some small way, are the servants of the Adeptus Terra - which includes staggering numbers of individuals of low importance. The Codex Imperialis mention Menials (non-specialised workers, unskilled labour and so forth, who are recruited from the non-Adept population) and Subordinates (specialised or skilled servants working for a particular part of the Imperium, whose titles and duties are hereditary and who have the opportunity to advance through the ranks, becoming Scribes and Ordinates). These lowly individuals, and all those above them, bear the title of Adept, and are servants of the Imperium. All brothers of the Adeptus Astartes, and some high-ranking officers of the Imperial Guard, bear that title as well.

With that all in mind, I personally regard all who bear the title of Adept (of any rank, role or status - from the lowliest Menial to the High Lords of Terra) as Imperial Citizens, in that their duties are in direct service to the perpetuation of the Imperium, while those who do not bear the title of Adept are beneath the consideration of Imperial Law.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

With that all in mind, I personally regard all who bear the title of Adept (of any rank, role or status - from the lowliest Menial to the High Lords of Terra) as Imperial Citizens, in that their duties are in direct service to the perpetuation of the Imperium, while those who do not bear the title of Adept are beneath the consideration of Imperial Law.



I have to admit that this would make sense in regard to the list of given on p.33 of the BoJ. The thing that still keeps me from "liking it" is the phrase "citizens of the Imperium" which has been used to describe each and any non-excommunicated, non-mutant human.But since "common wording" and "wording of the law" ARE known to be quiet different indeed this might just be the solution. Thank you!

EDIT: But I would change the ending of your last sentence into "beneath the protection of the Adeptus Arbites". No-one ever was, is or will be beneath the consideration of Imperial Law (for it would mean that it would not apply to them).

EDIT-EDIT:… so "Imperial Nobles" is mentioned since this is a list for Scintilla where Marius Hax court does reside…and these are imperial nobles then…. ?

Gregorius21778 said:

EDIT-EDIT:… so "Imperial Nobles" is mentioned since this is a list for Scintilla where Marius Hax court does reside…and these are imperial nobles then…. ?

In some cases - some of the nobility are the nobles of the Imperium (including, but not limited to, every planetary governor - Imperial Commanders, to use their proper title), others are mere planetary nobility. I imagine that the court of the Lord Sector will contain a considerable number of both Imperial nobility and lesser planetary nobles.

Again, I have to agree that this makes sense. Will treat it that way, thanks for useful input. happy.gif

40K is a collection of stolen concepts, and the division of citizens/non-citizens is not new in the sci-fi world.

Take Heinlein's Starship Troopers for example, where cervice in the military would guarantee Citizenship. There were other ways, but for most people such a Tour of Duty was the safest bet to achieve Citizen status, with the privileges afforded that rank.

Why are only citizens allowed to vote?

Student: It's a reward. Something the federation gives you for doing federal service.

Jean Rasczak: No. Something given has no basis in value. When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.

Gerrymandering could be something like cutting a planet apart so to speak, and rahter than having a central autority (planetary guv'ner) the world is rules by numerous nation-state like us, just that imperial dealings are "let the best nation-state win" deal