hey guys

so i've played Death Angel for the first time last night and i got say it has the potential to be a great game! but let's start with the facts!

First of all, and despite the fact that i dont play 40k anymore (it was the game that brought me into this world:)), im a huge fan of the theme and background... it is really rich and dense, so i was instantly hooked up! Secondly, i really enjoyed the game because i think everyone likes that "to the last man!" kind of feeling and for god's sake! we're talking about a bunch of marines that are in a space ship surrounded by vicious "little" aliens that appear from everywhere! yesterday we shouted some usual warcries when we saw our 3 (from 8) space marines surrounded by 16 genestealers (Alien 2 anyone?)...we had some good laughs....

Now, why do i say that it has the potential? well then, i gotta admit that the game seems very random to me...i mean, sure i can live with claudio dying in his 2 attack (after he died, my buddy said "we're done" )...afterall, his ability is awesome! but it seems very strange that, for example, your defense depends on the number of genestealers and your hitting ability is not affected! i mean, c'mon, you dont get a chance to save yourself if more than 5 GS are in a corridor, but you still have that 50% chance to score a hit when the corridor is crowded! i dont think that this rule is balanced at all...even that initial 50% chance to hit is very dubious to me....Even full auto is not that great. i shot with that ability 3 times and managed to kill 3 aliens (1/3)

Another thing....the number of actions. 3 actions and you can't play the one you played last turn seems a bit frustrating when the corridors are full with enemies. I think FFG should increase the # of actions, even if they're were "normal" actions - for example, you could have regular actions that you could play every turn (attack and move for example). i really dont understand why cant you attack every turn. sure you couldn use "full auto" for example every turn, but you could use it to make 1 attack (ranged or close combat). yeah, you could say that they take 1 turn to reload but one could say that they could make a ranged 0 attack with their hands. afterall, they all have gauntlets or something like that (that's how you paly 40k anyway)

Last, i would like to make a comparison: Space Hulk the boardgame is the opposite to this game: its very easy to win with the Space Marines (i also dont like that particular aspect). yeah i know that this game is made by another company, but i think one should try to make a more balanced game.

In the end, i really enjoyed the game but i think it has a bit too much randomness in it. Yeah i can live with unexpected flank changes and such (that's the beauty of it really), but the i think SM should have more options to play. probably with an expansion or maybe house rules....

what do you think? feedback would be great!

thanks!

Kopos said:

Now, why do i say that it has the potential? well then, i gotta admit that the game seems very random to me...i mean, sure i can live with claudio dying in his 2 attack (after he died, my buddy said "we're done" )...afterall, his ability is awesome! but it seems very strange that, for example, your defense depends on the number of genestealers and your hitting ability is not affected! i mean, c'mon, you dont get a chance to save yourself if more than 5 GS are in a corridor, but you still have that 50% chance to score a hit when the corridor is crowded! i dont think that this rule is balanced at all...even that initial 50% chance to hit is very dubious to me....Even full auto is not that great. i shot with that ability 3 times and managed to kill 3 aliens (1/3)

Dude, GS are lightning quick, they don't just stand around letting to take shots at them . Even if a corridor seems crowded, they'll still be ducking and weaving. Not to mention, you might say the misses actually do hit, but aren't enough to kill the GS.

Kopos said:

Aim is not to kill the GS (apart from that one final location). Marines have a goal and such, they are moving forward, trying to get toward that goal. They know that if they waste time, reinforcements (for GS) will eventually overwhelm them with numbers (or when the Marines run out of ammo). Marines SUCK in close combat vs genestealers, even terminator armor is paper to the claws of the stealers. Combined with their speed and better mobility, no, marine with a powerfist doesn't want to go toe-to-toe with GS, not if he can take them out at a distance.

I agree with your first statement but, even if that's true, i think "our" odds of hitting should be higher or at least dependable on the # of GS in a area.

I also agree with your 2nd statement but the idea here its not the choice between shooting and fighting in H2H....is to attack or not to attack. in a life / death situation i think they would use everything they got to save themselves.

in the end, i think that if you take into consideration both the randomness of the game and the odds of hitting a GS, they make this game a bit dependable on luck...i mean, i've read a few battle reports and a relevant part of the victories depend, in a significant degree, in keeping Claudio alive. the guy really is a killer and, as i said previously in my first experience, he killed 6 GS before dying (2nd roll)...and the probability of that result is 1/6....

Isn't 50-50 still a better chance than vanilla bolter in regular SH, 2d6, hits on 6 the first shot?

Claudio is nice no doubt, but if you're basing your strats around him, just be prepared for him to bite the big one on the first attack . With no rerolling option on his Heroic Charge, it's the breaks you take. For me though, Sergeant Lorenzo is the man. Even though he failed to make the most of his Counterattack today, at least he went down swinging. Stood against a 8-GS swarm, got them down to 5GS, then suddenly hit a non-skull streak, even with 4 Support tokens he couldn't buy a roll with a skull, so he died. It wouldn't have been the first time he's stood up to a big swarm and wiped them all out while defending. Of course, the Green team was in the game, so they probably jinxed him. Stupid Greens, I think their allegiance is to Nurgle. Bloody Traitors. Still had a shot at winning, but failed the Launch Control Room roll, then all three Marines left got killed by the GS. Win streak ended at 9 .

I have played three games now. All in a losing effort. But we learned from each one and just like other games the more we practice the better we will get.

Tactics I thought would work in my first game is not the same tactics I used in my third becuase after experiancing GS moving and how hard in can be to activate and control pannel or a door.

Looking forward to many more games.

As a side note: My play group is trying to our options with little to no table talk.

btw i have a question...when you move to another area (the rule states that you should travel when any of the blips reaches 0) what happens to the GS on the other blip? do they "travel" as well or they disappear?

"3. Discard/Refill Blip Piles: All cards that
remain in the blip pile(s) are discarded." (p. 26)

I'm a bit frustrated by the lack of choices and ahead planning in this game.

Apparently, the terminator squads are teleported for an unknown mission to complete, without any indication on the sectors they'll cross to get there, and no long-distance detectors...

"What are we supposed to do ? - Travel across locations, hopefully, you'll reach one in which you'll find out something usefull to do !" Sounds a little strange to me, sending the top-most Marines without info on a mission without hope to return isn't what I'm used to with Space Marines.

I'm trying to figure out a bunch of house-rules in order to make the game more interesting to me, like :

• play with location cards face-up, this represents the info received during mission breifing
• play with next event card bottom line revealed, this represents long-distance detector ability (the effect of the event is unknow until the card is drawn)
• each team receives a free support token at the start of the game (Marine are fresh and prepared to deal with the first wave of Genestealers)

Additional Marine cards may be a great addition to (a "Move + Attack" without any special effect for example), as may be alternative ones (an alternative "Support" card for a team, with a different special effect, up to the player to define which one he will use for the whole game during setup).

I, too, consider the game to have "potential", but for now the luck factor is way to high for my own taste.

Martin_fr said:

Hulks are notoriously hard to scan other than the surface, you can use pretty much whatever excuse you want for why the scans don't see deeper: radiation, materials that blocks scans, psionics, etc. I do agree about knowing the end goal.

Martin_fr said:

Having just ended a 9-game winning streak, meh, I don't see luck factor being that significant. Yes, it plays a role, but planning helps quite a bit. Support tokens are just for show. Even in that game that ended the streak, bad luck early and we felt like no way we make it to the end, but there we were with three Marines still alive looking at 1/3 chance of victory. Had we made one of your defense rolls, would've gotten another 1/3 next turn.

From my experience from Death Angel, despite being based on luck it's also equally based on strategy as well. Having all marines blasting away with all-out attacks might leave you very vulnerable next turn. Should you move and activate in order to get in position to kill a whole lot of genestealers next turn? Should you provide support so your fellow battle brother might survive the next genestealer attack? Is it worth it to activate a promethium tank despite the likelihood of exploding? How about the teleportarium? How many support tokens should you spare for Lexicanus's Psionic Attack? These crucial decisions make or break the game.

Death Angel is a co-op game - all players versus the game. In my experience, such games NEED to be hard on the players. If winning is too easy (even a 50/50 chance) the game stops being fun real quick, because you can easily game the system so you almost always win. The game can't stop you, it can't learn from your tactics and get better. To keep these games interesting, they have to be HARD. You have to fail a few times so that the victory is that much sweeter when it happens.

Maybe some things are illogical, fluff-wise, but that's just fluff. It's better that you invent fluff to explain the rules than invent rules to fit the fluff. It's also pretty easy to blame the odds for your loss, but once you get familiar with the game, you'll see that you can make the odds work in your favour by using certain strategies. Again, the game can do nothing to stop you, so it needs the statistical advantage to stay ahead. The game is only fun for as long as it stays challenging.

true and i'll keep trying till i punch those pesky aliens right in the face!

nevertheless, IMO a game can be difficult even in co-op style without being this random. but overall, i kinda enjoy this game even with its flaws!

I wrote a review of this game, but it is quite long; so, I'm just going to leave the link here: javascript:void(0);/*1294482519390*/

Great review Rince! i think we have almost the same opinion on this one

Steve-O said:

Initially, I too thought this game was too hard, but after reading your argument, I cannot help but agree with you. It actually makes sense to make Death Angel hard.

The problem with 4+ players, however, still remains: they die out way too fast controlling only one squad. But, I guess we just have to face the fact that this game is not suited for more than 3 players.

Kopos said:

Thanks a lot!

I picked up this game a few days ago, and played 3-4 games solo while learning the rules. I lost badly each time, and was immediately hooked. Any game this difficult is bound to have a memorable payoff when I finally win and get to jump up on the couch, rip my shirt off, dump a beer over my head and scream out " I AM VICTORIOUS!!!!" Because that's how I do.

So I played another solo game tonight while my 10-year-old son watched to try and learn the rules. And lo and behold, I tore through that Space Hulk like a boss. Every die roll went my way, every event card was to my advantage, every tactical decision I made was genius (and yes, the game is very luck-dependent, but that only serves to turn every tactical choice you make feel like a make-or-break decision). Teaching my son the rules quickly fell to the wayside:

"So, Dad, why are the Genestealers spawning on...."

"QUIET BOY! CAN'T YOU SEE I'M BEING SWARMED ON BOTH SIDES! I MUST ACTIVATE THE PROMETHIUM TANK OR I'M DOOMED!"

I made it to the final location, the toxin pumping station, with 4 space marine buried in support tokens. I activated the control panel twice to whittle the blip piles down. Victory was certain. And then...

It all went to hell. I missed on every attack roll. An event card wiped out most of my support tokens. I blew a roll on an event card which would have eliminated two Genestealers, and another event card spawned Genestealers behind each of my men. Brother Valencio missed an attack roll which would have saved Lexicanium Calistarius. My son laughed maniacally as my marines fell one by one.

It ended with Valencio, that bastard, hopelessly swarmed on both sides and missing one last futile die roll. After I got done beating my head against the wall, I turned to my son and said, "This game is great, and I hate it."

So, yeah, I can't wait to play it again. This time with my son.

(And I apologize for the long first post.)

Did you have the Green team in the game? They suck and are cursed, if you had them, that's your excuse for losing .

yesterday we had 2 games...the first one was a quick win for the Genestealers....we lost 3 guys onn the first wave plus 2 on the second (really really bad rolls) so we decided to restart......and we won our 2nd match with only 1 guy standing (that guy with range 3 (Lorenzo?))!!! i jumped and yelled and shouted "Who's your daddy?" around the house! it was really intense and i think we both enjoyed it (it was the first victory in 3 games for me and in 5 or 6 for my buddy! i believe that we got very lucky because we had Claudio...and YES, once again, he died in our last turn with an amazing zero:) i "love" him.....on the other hand, though, we had green team and we think that they're the worst team!

Still, i rest my case....the game is pure randomness. but i say it again...it's fun and intense and im certain that we will play it regularly:)