Four-parter

1. When you achieve a critical hit by rolling a number of DoS equal to the crit rating of your weapon, do you crit, even if the target has voidshields remaining and your hit will not negate them?

In other words, if your macrocannon battery whiffs, can you fish for a crit with your lance? Or is the crit negated by the shields?

2. Every time crit rating is mentioned, it is described as the number of successes you need to roll in order to crit. Does that mean the number of DoS?

3. Does it count if you roll more DoS than is required (as in 4 DoS is a subset of the 6 Dos you rolled), or do you have to roll exactly the number of DoS?

4. If you double the DoS required, do you crit twice?

I assume the answers to parts 2, 3 and 4 are yes, it counts if you roll more, and no you don't crit twice. But as I think I've been misplaying question 1, I just wanted to cover my bases.

2, 3 and 4 are all yes.

I can see arguments for both sides of 1. On the one hand, the hits that are negated by the shields never actually hit the hull of the ship, but on the other hand the rule just states number of successes, it never states that they must get through.

It might be worth sending a Rules Question to FFG, using this link.

Happy to be proven wrong but i'm pretty sure you can inflict only 1 critical hit per weapon component (or per salvo if firing like this) regardles of how many degrees of success you score.

Are you saying that a lance hitting with 6 degrees of success inflicts 2 critical hits?

Can anyone else confirm this or not?

Gribble_the_Munchkin said:

Nope, you can score multiple critical hits. The only limit (for 1 critical hit) is when firing in a salvo.

MILLANDSON said:

I highly doubt that this interpretation is correct.

Why? It just states how many successes are required for a critical hit. If you get double the successes needed, there is nothing that states that you don't gain an additional critical hit.

First - Given that you can still inflict a critical with a macrobattery salvo which somehow fails to penetrate a ships armor, I could see an argument for allowing an otherwise absorbed hit on the Void Shields being able to Critical. After all, on page 220 it states " If the Shot does not do any damage to Hull Integrity, inflict 1 automatic point of damage. Then roll 1d5 on the Critical Hit chart and apply the result to the target. "

Second - RAW states that " if the character rolls a number of successes equal to the weapons's Crit Rating, the shot has caused a Critical Hit. " Therefore, presumably you may only score a Critical when that specific number of DoS are scored. Prior to Table 8-12 the Critical Hits section on page 221 it states the table " should be used when a weapon's attack roll has met its Critical Rating. " Nothing about exceeding it at all in either area.

Clarifications:

1. ¶ In the Damage and Defences section it states " Void Shields work by absorbing incoming hits before they can be resolved against their target. " So, a Weapon strike that would have been a Critical, if absorbed entirely by the Void Shield is completely negated, including the Critical.
   ¶ I do kind of like the idea of " Leaky Shields ", like in Star Fleet Battles , but it doesn't seem intended to work that way Rogue Trader .
2. ¶ As far as the Critical Rating of a Weapon Component goes, it can be intended to be interpreted " you must score X DoS exactly " or " when you score X DoS or more ." Personally, I think it is intended to be X or more , otherwise Broadsides can't Critical (5) if they hit with a full Strength (6) salvo. Also pretty sure that it's meant to be a limit of 1 Critical per individual Weapon Component, with combined Salvos still only able to score 1 critical no matter how many Components are combined. Pages 220 and
   ¶ Remember, Prow Mounts on Light Cruisers and larger warships can also fire into the Port or Starboard , so a Lunar or Tyrant with a Strength 4 Prow Battery and two Strength 6 Broadsides could potentially combine for a maximum of 16 hits. This massive salvo would only be able to score a grand total of 1 critical. Whereas not combining them would allow each Component a chance to score their own Critical, but may otherwise not cause as much damage to Hull Integrity over all.

There was something else I wanted to add, but I've decided to play nice today.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

I like your logic, and I agree with it entirely. However the exact rules here are figity. I think they are a bit too vague to be able to come to an exact conclusion based on close reading and, as they stand now, must be interpreted by each GM.

I sent a request to FF per the suggestion by MILLANDSON a few days ago. Hopefully they'll be able to clear this up.

Etheric said:

I'm still waiting on them for one I sent up from your "[Mathhammer]" thread and " Strength doesn't apply to Lances because... " bit. I think I'll have to resubmit it.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

I wouldn't expect anyone to be in the office to respond to rules questions until at least the day after tomorrow.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Much my thoughts N0-1. And yet, there have been a few people who have reported getting answers over the last weeks during the holidays. So one could hope...

-=Brother Praetus=-

Got my reply, I'd post it here in its entirety, but I can't get copy-paste to work.

Here goes:

1. Yes you can fish for crits. Crits ignore voidshields. "...a crit is a good enough hit that it causes a localized burnthrough."

2. They do mean degrees of success when they say successes.

3. You aren't penalized by rolling higher than the number.

4. You can't crit more than once.

Which are exactly the answers I was looking for.

Etheric said:

I presume this is "per weapon component," and not "per round." With the exception being the special case rule for combined salvos from multiple Macrobatteries which states "only one critical."

-=Brother Praetus=-

Etheric said:

This one makes lance weapons a bit better again. The usually better crit rating of a lance will come in handy, if your macrocannons didn't manage to overcharge the enemy's shields. Still, I think the players will suffer more under this rule than will the NPCs.

Brother Praetus said:

Yes. I should have quoted my question from my OP, but the lack of copy-paste made me lazy. That answer is in direct response to my question, which asks if you roll double the successes, if you crit twice.

gomme: Yeah, I see your point. Crits normally advantage NPCs. Which is ironic, since it is usually PCs who clamor for spectacular crits and critfails. That's a major reason why most NPCs in rogue trader can't righteous fire. I think this is less of a problem with the ship combat though, since you can repair damaged systems mid-fight. In a way, it gives the non-pilots something to do.

Considering that the lance battery hits are each resolved separately, does that mean each hit is a separated critical hit, or only one of them is considered a critical?

Each time you roll to hit, you compare the degrees of success to the Crit Rating of the weapon. Meet or surpass it, and you incur a Critical effect. Other than that, you can't have multiple crits. Makes the Stryxis ship and their special effect of rolling to hit again interesting.

Felius said:

If you fire the weapons in separate salvos, yes, they each get to cause a critical hit. If they are fired as one salvo, as per the rules, you can only cause one crit out of all of them.