I got the hardcover players guide today from ccgarmoury. (please add your thoughts below)

My thoughts:

* Glad this is out. I agree with the wisdom of waiting until both the WoM and SoF were put out first. Had this not been the case and this guide put out last year with all the careers, people would be bitching that there wasn't enough spells to support the wizards and priests. Well played ffg.

* The back cover has a logo for the dice app on the ipad online store. ..now we just need an app for the droid?

* The character sheet is 2 pages and has a lot more "fill-in" room. The 3rd page of the sheet is for "fill in" for cards. Smart move. I'm going to convert mine to a form fillable' PDF.

* I didn't delve too deeply into the rules yet to look to see if descriptors are more easy to read or more consistent language is used. It appears that it is simply organized like before (more later). There is no bolding of game terms or descriptors in the general text.

* Rat Catcher's tale from the online download has been reprinted in the back. It should make for a good player read.

* There is an easy to read index, but no glossary of terms (was released before in the GM's toolkit)

* Intermediate careers are referred to as "Advanced careers" except in the traits sections of the entries. E.g. Witch Hunter. They are laid out in clear fashion with their talent slots (and career abilities included without having to reference elsewhere.)

* The MAPS are included in this set so players have a reference point.

Again, these are the highlights from me. I'll leave rules stuff for the rest of you to review

jh

..

In my opinion the new character sheet is a big misunderstanding. It only is a prouf for me that You can't play the game without the components. The game was designed to play it with cards and tokens and that's the way it should be played - the best way in my opinion. That's just a way to write all componenst from cards to a paper sheet. You must write down everything from cards to tokens. That's the componentless veriosn of the game so - there no game without components. It's far more faster and easier to play with cards in Your hand then write everything down.

The Ratcatchers Tale printed veriosn is good and I like it.

I agre that the Players Guide is writen in a little more easy to understand language but nothing more. It's a reprint form the core set main book with just more examples. That's all.

I got it becouse I have a collectors soul and I like to have all the WFRP products buy if I would be only a player who does not have enough money to buy those I would not do it. The Players/ GM G&V don't bring nothing new to the game. If You own the core set You will not find anything it those.

Don't get my wrong those are good products if You don't have the core set and money to buy it. Then You can buy separately all what You need to start playing WFRP.

PS. there was a question about the dice in the GM Vault, I just don't remeber where - so there are 12 dice, the same as in the dice box that You can buy. With only those You can't realy have fun with the game - You need more of those. The one in the core set are the best way to start (becouse there a lot of them in the core set).

Another note about the index: The abilities are not referenced in the index (but are categorized in the page tabs). This might be a nice project for someone

FF: we started playing the game when it came out without the components. My players were 50/50 split on just having it written down on a sheet of paper or using the fatigue chits, stress chits, fortune chits, career sheet, career ability card, talent cards, ability cards and basic ability cards. IMHO, the condition cards and wound cards are essential to normal tabletop play, but I still prefer a sheet of paper with it written down. I use magic tape so I can erase and write at will with the pencil without wearing a hole through the paper.

We'll see what my tabletop players want in 2011. They've been hung up on boardgaming lately and i might be jsut stuck playing/gming on MAPTOOL, which is freakishly componentless!

jh

You know, FFGFAN, back in the 90s, TSR published spell cards for AD&D 2E and I remember some of our players who also played Magic the Card game started to use their magic stones (tokens or whatever) to keep track of how many rounds a spell was cast for and what not, while other players wrote the spell down on their character sheet, ticked off the rounds with a pencil (some used dice) and so forth.

Its true that 3E here has been designed to use cards, fancy dice and tokens, but truly, its isnt any different then not using them. Its just a matter of book keeping.

The truth is, with these new books, players and GMs can run this game just fine. Sure the book recommends looking at other sets for additional information, but its not like you cant use that part of the game without that additional set, you just get more info if you have it. Like it may say in one of my old DC Hereos RPG books to look at the Batman SOurcebook for more Bat-Theme gear, but it doesnt mean I cant use Batman in my games.

And it is true some of the creatures, entriels and what not do not have the cards or other information that is available in other sets, but just because I dont have stats for a daemon doesnt mean I cant use the Creatures Vault as is, I just dont have all the info on the critter I would never use anyhow. Besides, with that list of errata forming in the other threads, plenty of things are missing that may be unintentional.

All in all, I hand it to FFG for making a product that is essentially a non-product (slightly revised repring of previosu published material) and getting their 30 bucks out of it.

I looked at the Players Guide and GMS Guide and found them to be very well organized with nice layout and art and the feel of a book in my hand, over a deck of cards, was really nice. If I was to ever run this game or get serious into it (instead of a game here and there with various groups I know back home) it would be with these books and no cards.

But I am glad you like the cards and stuff FFGFan.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Yes, I understand that. You know I'm a old RPG player. I started in 1995 and my first system was Warhammer 1st edition. back in the day we only used paper and pencil but now games evolved. Now we got cards and so on. My first session with 3rd WFRP was looking wierd. My players when saw it first said - is this a board game or what? But becouse we play board games and card game after the first session they said - wow, this if realy diferent but amazing. The aspect of collecting new cards and so many options of play are great. I respect that You Peacekeeper_B like playing without those components but I think if I have an option of customising my game then why not to do it? Maybe that's the reason why I play with cards, I just like to customise my games the way I like.

PS. You know what? I think that in the future all products for WFRP will come in boxes but. The box will have a book and all needed components. And in that book at the end we will have tables with additional content published the way it is in Guides. So if there will be any new carrers, talents or actions we will see them also published in those books.

Personally, I think FFG releasing these guides and vaults are great for everyone. First, because folks that don't want to use components (or minimal components) now have an easier time to play and do so. Second, because now there are ways to add additional pieces/content without purchasing a whole second Core Set. I agree that the Core Set is the best bet, get at least one. However, for example, I plan on picking up the GM Vault even though I already have the Core Set. Why? Because it has additional dice, additional enemy standups (less proxying), additional location cards, additional wound/critical cards, additional condition cards, another set of basic action cards. That's a lot of stuff that I could use extras of, without needing to buy another Tome of Adventure, or another set of career cards or party sheets, etc. Thirdly, it allows players to buy just a piece for themselves. Now a player could buy the player's guide and have a rulebook of their own to browse through. They can buy the player's vault and have their own set of action cards and character sheets. No more borrowing the GM's Core Set components, or having the GM take their PC home with them. The player can use their own cards and take them home, allowing them also to browse through the action cards at their leisure outside of game night. All that, without buying all the GM-oriented books and materials.

This is a great idea/series of products to really maximize the availability and customization for groups of players and GMs, IMNSHO