Hiyas, by the GE!

Having almost no knowledge of the Astartes, I have 2 related questions, which I posit (to) thee:

1. Have there been any redeemed Traitor Legions/Chapters (gone back to the GE's fold) since the Heresy?

2. Since the Heresy have there been any new traitor chapters (turned-coat after)?

Thanks!

L

1. To my knowlegde no. I might be wrong though, but I hardly think this is something the High lords would find in their hearts to forgive.

2. It is very rare for entire chapters to turn traitors, but it as happened several times since the heresy. The most notable are the astral claws that turned into the red corsairs and spawned the entire Badab war.

It is far more common for individual marines, squads or to a lesser degree companies to turn traitors for various reasons.

Well the book does mention the Black Shields...

Yet, it stands to reason that Black Shield postulants with mutations & witchery powers are a big NO NO...

Thanks!

L

Jackal_Strain said:

As a Crimson Fist I have to say that most notable are the Souldrinkers who have turned their backs on the legacy of Rogal Dorn.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Interesting. Having read all the Souldrinker novels, I do not recall them turning their back on Dorn, nor the Emperor, nor even Man. They turned their backs to the corrupt and debased mockery of the Emperor's true Imperium. Especially after being robbed of the Soulspear and then attacked by the Mechanicus.

You defend yourself and try to reclaim what is rightfully yours and you get declared Excommunicate Traitoris for it. Go figure. Of course, Sarpedon was a horribly short-sighted and narrow-minded leader most of the time, and easily manipulated by others.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

Go tell that the Chaos Gods you worship, traitor.

The High Lords of Terra wouldn't declare one of our own blood Excommunicate Traitoris without good reason and the mutants they sport are a sad testimony to that fact. We'll be shedding Crimson Tears while we clear the name of Dorn of that stain.

That being said, I seriously hope Souldrinkers will be included in Rites of Battle since they too are a successor chapter and DW takes place before "the Fall."

Alex

ak-73 said:

The High Lords didn't declare a thing. It was an Inquisitor who was made a patsy of the Adeptus Mechanicus which declared the Souldrinkers traitors. And the man didn't even have the balls to deliver the message himself. He sent his Interrogator to deliver it... Who was then cut down by Sarpedon in an honor duel on the flight deck. Oh, and the mutations didn't come about until after that point.

I have to agree with wanting to see them in the game, though. Along with Death Specters and Astral Knights.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

Well, from a Crimson Fists perspective things look slightly different. Plus at the point when they met the Souldrinkers it seemed like a clear case: a chapter that has been declared traitors who has some hideous mutants among them and who ally with xenos. Any question?

Lol, they should have done like the Marines Vigilant and accepted their fate without resistance instead of bringing more shame on the name of Rogal Dorn.
(Seriously, I like this "lap dogs of Terra, we fight other Space Marines when ordered to do so" about the CF.)

I wouldn't expect the Death Spectres and Astral Knights though. I think the designer diary of Rites Of Battle spoke of Imperial Fists and successor s . That would mean primarily Crimsons and Souldrinkers to me as BT are covered. Anything beyond that is bonus. And we'll have custom chapter rules too then.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Well, we've never been given solid information about who either chapters' geneseed comes from. However, it would probably be a safe bet that the Death Specters are not likely to be an Ultramarine successor, given their odd genetic deviance into albinism. Astral Knights would just be fun since the possibly 200 odd survivors of the chapter; after most of them were lost assaulting the Necron World Engine, would make for excellent Black Shields. And it seems a likely outcome since the chapter was not reconstituted, was stricken from the roles, and a new chapter founded in their stead.

That all would be what I call a bonus as excellent as a creamy nougetty center.

-=Brother Praetus=-

LETE said:

It would be YES on both accounts.

There has been a quite a few intra-astartes civil wars during the years. Most recent of the big ones is Badab War (901-912.M41) in which four chapters (Astral Claws, Mantis Warriors, Lamenters and Executioners) turned renegade with leadership of Astral Claws chapter and Huron. A force of eleven chapters (Fire Hawks, Marines Errant, Red Scorpions, Raptors, Salamanders, Fire Angels, Novamarines, Howling Griffons, Sons of Medusa, Minotaurs and Exorcists) was deployed to stop them. In the end of the four renegade chapters only Astral Claws were judged to be irrevocably corrupt and were destroyed, the three other chapters were redeemed but they had their homeworlds taken from them and had to make a penance of 100 year crusade.

It's a matter of definitions.

Lots of Chapters have been declared Renegade and later forgiven. However, turning Renegade means becoming mercenaries, siding with corrupt lords, or generally not towing the Imperial line.

Turning Traitor is more severe, I believe. It tends to -in literature that I've read- seem to be more of a specific label for either turning to Chaos worship, or going WAY out of bounds, to the point where there can be no forgiveness.

So I think it's fair to say that plenty of Renegade Chapters have been given a second chance, but I can't think of a single Traitor Chapter that has.

Its depends if they turn traitor or actually defect...

The Marines Malevolent are a bit piranitcal raiding ships for ammunition etc but aren't quite chaos.

The Relictors use chaos artifacts to fight chaos and so are delecared as heretics but at the same time fight chaos. There are similar types abound.