Hi people, I've just gotten this game and starting to play. Descent strikes me as a very entertaining game, as long as things keep being challenging for both sides. There's dice and there's card-drawing, and its all good cause there is a lot of that!

But I do have one major concern - the character/skill combinations. This is the only random even that can have permanent effect on a game session, and it is really quite important that this choise is balanced! If the heroes get too good or too sucky combinations, the game can become unbeatable for either side.

So my question is this; what is generally considered a fair combination? When is a redraw warrented?

An example: In a test game I, as overlord, was up agains 20hp 5armour hero wielding a shield.... =) while the other hero "only" had 16hp and 4armour. I only managed to kill that one once, but they had accumulated about 10 conquest at this time. Other combinations of heroes, for example two of the weaker magic users, would have been just as boring giving the heroes no chance whatsoerver.

How do you guys play it?

There is no easy answer to this. There are too many good combinations to list them all, and you cant really prevent them without coming up with a big list of banned combos - and there would be a lot of them.

It is just part of the game. In vanilla descent, it doesnt matter too much as you play 1 game, put it away and start again next time from scratch. Sometimes you get good combos, sometimes you dont. And yes, some combos potentially "break" the game, but that is just how it works sometimes.

I'm faced with a problem that in our very first RtL campaign, the characters got really lucky with characters / skills and initial treasures. From my point of view (already way behind on conquest), our game was over from the second session. The problem is that next time we play, what happens if the characters get lucky again with an equally "good" combo?

This is very much about experience. Combos you think good when you play the game first time could be much weaker against good OL. All levels in basic game can be passed with characters with armor 0-1. Our team done so. Some skills are much better than others, some skills are useless. But usually you don't get 4 useless skills. However if you play only 2 characters, this is much more important to have good one. So I suggest in that matter to allow one redraw for characters and 2 redraw instead of one for skills.

Interesting considerations. Thanks for the advice SanJin.

Can anything general be said though, about hero power? For example the armour2 heroes strike me as universally better than the rest, even though many of them give 4 conquest... and I can imagine killing av0 conquest 2 heroes many many times over. Also, "Tough" looks to be just very good.

Pretty much, if a hero has 4 or more armor, you won't kill it, so don't even try. The resources necessary to kill him once could kill a 2 armor hero several times.

So while they are the "best" as far as the hardest to kill, it doesn't help your other heroes at all.

Solmyrgarde said:

Depends on what role you are looking to have them fill. If you go with the canonical party being 2 tanks, 1 ranger and 1 magic user then you can get some armor 2 people for the tanks, but there are some armor 1 tanks that are really good. Also, one of the best magic users in the game has no armor and like 8 health, but Landric can dish out damage like you wouldn't believe and he's worth 2 CT. So having higher armor isn't always the best.

Its really looking at their combination of trait dice, Hero ability and Heath/Fatigue stats. You can buy more armor, and speed can be augmented by Fatigue. Generally, characters who only have 1 power die in something or for all three aren't that great., 2 is average, and 3 is really strong but then you really need to make sure you assign roles to people. I find the 2/1 dice Heroes are a little more flexible at the expense of that extra die but if you pull 4 Heroes that fill out the roles you want and all have 3 dice, you go with them. The exception to this is Ronan of the Wild, since Pico essentially makes him a 2/3 dice Melee/Ranged character (if I'm remembering him right).

Can the heroes do anything to protect their 2 armour members? As in, do I even ever attack a 4 armour hero, or just ALWAYS ignore it? Will it always be possible to hit the weakling. If that is the case, why would the heroes ever choose a high av hero, vs. a ranged one, if there is a weak one in the group.

(Except for something called taunt).

Solmyrgarde said:

4 armor Heroes are Trap prone, and Bleed token from Ferrox (if you have that expansion) can really mess up a high AV Hero.

its really all about finding a combination that works for you. Typically, having a ranger or magic user around can be helpful, since they can take out the weaker monsters clogging up the hallways so that you tanks gain some manuevering room to go hit the heavy enemies.

As for hitting the weaker Heroes, the crafty OL will always find a way. Dropping a crushing block on them and then having them fall into a pit immediately after is always fun. Plus, flying creatures like Razorwings can glide right past the tanks to attack the ranger and magic user in the back.

Against Armour 4+ use attacks that either have Pierce or that dish out effect tokens or have high damage ratings. Web and Stun slow them down no end.

chip away at their health, forcing them to burn off potions, hit them with traps and use Dark Charm to force their allies to attack them.

It's never worth making a concerted effort to kill them, but you'll rarely find yourself without a spare attack or two that you can hit them with.

Thanks for all the tips! Just played my first complete game - Into the dark. **** it's a hard level for the OL if the heroes aren't half fools (mine were only half fools hehe). The monsters are pretty different and manouvering seems to means everything, especially with the big monsters.

How do you spend your threat? I have a feeling it's best to use a lot of threat at the same time, saving it up. But too much saving and holding back gives the heroes an easy time moving on through an area...

Last question: What about OL powers - trapmaster, doom, evil genious etc. Worth it?

Into the Dark is designed for the OL to lose pretty much since its the first Quest.

Powers are worth it, especially DOOM and Evil Genius. As for threat, saving it for Powers isn't a bad idea. Remember that cards management is key, you want to get through that deck as fast as possible. Discarding cards for more threat is useful.

several beastmen leaders are nice to take out heroes with high armour. I like killing these when possible, because they are the ones who have the most trouble coming back to the fight. But it is still usually better to focus on the less armored ones (some skills like taunt or grapple don't give you this choice, though).

It is usually better to have 1 tank with 2 base armor, and real tanking skills (bear tatoo+willpower, deflect arrow or parry if playing with RTL), and 1 melee hitter (like Laughin Buldar, Lord hawtorne) than to have two tanks.

As an OL playing against a fairly experienced and team oreinted group of hero's I've had to cope with some pretty challenging situations, but what I enjoy about this game so much is it's versitility and balance! As the OL it is not your responsibility to baby sit the hero's or coax them along as it is in many other types of games (D&D being a good example). It is your responsibility, nay your duty to obliterate them! However, we soon discovered many of the same issues that have been stated and addressed in this forum. To resolve these issues we decided to host a Q&A session deemed "The Treaty of Fair Play" (basically a compromise between the OL and the hero's about certain situations in the game.) This session founded our House and Table Rules when playing Descent. I won't get into House Rules in this part of the forum but if you have any questions about good House Rules please ask.

Table rules are a set of rules determined by the OL and the hero's that equilly benifits both parties and maintains a checks and balance system between the forces of drakness and the hero's of light. The system in which you implement these rules should be fair between both parties. In our case we discussed the issues and basically declared what we wanted and left it up to a vote. As we all take turns playing as the OL and the hero's it was fair for all, but in other cases where there is generally only one person to play the OL I've discovered that barganing with the hero's is best, and anything that could not be agreed upon was left to the rulebook to decide.

Our treaty is as follows... 1: Skill Cards-Any hero may redraw a skill card once, but for each redraw made the OL may either gain 2 additional threat tokens at the start of his/her first turn or preselect any OL card from the deck at the start of the game.

2:Turn Order-Both hero and OL must indicate his/her intentions at the beginning of there turn before starting his/her turn and allow adequite time for an opposing player to respond to the situation. (Ex: Hero one says outloud at the start of his turn he will move one space, open the door, and move back one space. This give the OL enough time to search his OL cards to find a trap card that states it may be used when a hero ends their turn on an empty space.) This avoids quick play from one hero to the next that may prevent the OL from being too slow to use the card, and gives him/her enough time to examine their options.

3:Disputes-Disputes between hero's is decided by a vote. In the event of a tie we use a die.

4:Deciding Hero's-PCs may choose any hero they wish. If two PCs wish to play the same hero, the highest die roll decides who wins, and in the next dungeon play of that hero alternates.

5:Problems that May Arise-If the hero's have a question as to the rule of a particular situation that may occur in the game the OL determines the solution, and vise versa for the OL, the hero's decide. (Keep in mind that once a problem is resolved this way it is implemented into this treaty, and that all PCs I play with also play as the OL.) This keeps the game fair and balanced for future sessions.

If you have any other questions about House or Table rules please ask. I will reveal what has worked best for myself and my friends. Thanks

We've ran into the situation several times now where the heroes drawn are just so poor that the hero team stands very little chance of winning. That's a problem in itself but it's also a problem that somebody is getting stuck with a character they don't care to play.

I've been creating custom dungeons that are a bit more powerful than the basic ones (more monsters). To counter this I allow the players to choose their own heroes. Second, they may either 1) choose one skill from a deck their character normally has access to. Then draw two more but they may not trade in either of those two. or 2) draw their skill cards normally with the option to trade one back in.

Interesting points! I bet I could trade the heroes for some houserules..

One thing that bothered me was the central role of fatigue potions! Those **** heroes could stock up on them, spend fatigue on movement, quaff a FATPOT and spend the new fatige... hero power becomes rediculously spiked. Then I read about some houserule at geek, that the fatigue only returns at the end of the hero turn. Does anyone have experience with this rule? I am certain it would be more fun, what would be required to balance this out a bit?

Realistically, the heroes can only do this every other turn, unless they are also taking rest actions. It also means no other potions can be used, a perfect tike to smack them about.

Are you saying heroes can only use one potion pr. turn???

Solmyrgarde said:

Yes, Heroes can only drink one potion per turn.. Its in the FAQ on the first page.

And before any says it, no the (of any type) does not mean you could drink 1 health, 1 fatigue, and one power potion in the same turn because they are all different types and its say 1 potion (of any type).blah blah blah

1 Potion a turn, doesn't matter what kind it is.

Indeed. Before this was erratad, it was possible for a Hero to carry six potions and dink them all in the same turn. Imagine an Archer with a high Stamina, Rapid Fire and able to drink multiple Fatigue potions...

The fatigue potions abuse was discussed within my group. They decided that it was too cumbersome to carry that much of one item and wasn't economical for them to buy them all. I think they are right, but lucky for me I don't think they are going to try it any time soon...