Here is my problem. I'm playing the lcg casually, have the core set and around 10 more packs from random expantions.

I read here and there that as a "general" rule, when you build a 60 card deck you put around 30 characters, 15 income/discount locations and 15 other cards. Now if you look at the core set for say, the starks, in the deck they have around 10 of those cards.

You can look at this search http://agot.dbler.com/?view=dsearch&textsearch=&frt=0&rVr=3&pTs=1&valar=1&cbname=1&exP=&cardtype_sel=9&crest= to get a comprehensive list of gold producing locations for the lcg. To that you can add a few of the cost reducing locations and you have a very small list of cards that are supposed to make out 25% of a 60 card decks. Or is there something I'm missing?

I was trying to upgrade the decks in core to a 60 card deck and my only solution right now is to buy another set of core to get multiple of the generic gold producing locations (since I already have 3 of some of the restricted ones).

Addmitedly the choice of resource locations isn't huge, but putting together a basic 15 "just give me simple cash" locations for any given deck shouldn't be too hard.

For example:

3x In-House +1 Gold locations (e.g. The Goldroad)

3x Roseroad (Alternatively; if you want more influence, x3 Crossroads)

3x Searoad (Alternatively; x3 in-house -2 location, e.g. Hall of Heroes)

3x In-House Fiefdom (e.g. Western Fiefdom)

1x Unique Chamber (e.g. Cersei's Chambers) Can always go nuts and use this as a 2x if you have limited cards

2x Streets (e.g. Street of Steel + Street of Sisters)

From that basic skeleton you can either subtract locations (if you're running a low cost deck) or add/switch in fancier gadgetry like Kingdom of Shadows and Castle Black if they fit your deck.

Sure, there's not always much variety and you'll often end up running a very similar 15 in every deck you build; but it's not like 15 can't be done.

The real difficulty comes if you're supplying cards for a playgroup. When I was gearing up to do that I turned to buying up cheap old draft-packs and using the locations from there as proxies for Fiefdoms and the -2 cost-droppers. Not exactly elegant, but it was pretty cost-effective.

Thanks for your answer.

My idea is to try to keep the 4 decks that come with the core set alive. But like you said it's alot more difficult to get to 15 doing that. With Roseroad *3 and Searoad * 3 it seem that the kings of storm expantion would be a good idea but to be able to keep a few decks with those it would require multiple purchase also.

I guess I'll have to get that one and another copy of the core at least unless I find a way to get cheap singles or another source of card (which I haven't been able to find yet).

Was that limited choice also a feature of the ccg? If it's the case this seem like a design oversight to me no? I mean the last ccg I have played extensively was wow ccg and a situation like this one over location would be like if they basically only ever printed 6-7 quests and that everyone is forced to play a permutation of those same cards. We could always argue that some locations are better then others but here it's not even the case since locations that provide income other then those mentionned do not exist (I checked the ccg just now and other locations including some that produce 2 golds and more influence also exist but they are not yet in the lcg apparently). Even with a grand total of 39 cards (with most of them house cards) it's not a lot of choice for that important effect it seem.

Most decks don't need 15 income/cost reduction locations. 10 or 12 is usually fine unless the deck is high cost, has low income plots, or has tons of draw to be able to reliably use the income.

A quick look over the Decklists for the Top 8 of the Joust Championship have the following location based income/reducers

1st Lannister: 11 although he was running 6 characters which gave him gold also

2nd Martell: 12

3rd Targ Wildling: 11

4th Martell Wildling: 6

5th Martell: 11

6th Bara: 12

7th Martell Wild: 9

8th Greyjoy: 9

I'd say your magic number would be around 11

eprieur said:

15 locations and 15 events and attachments. Not 15 gold/reduce locations.

Rogue30 said:

15 locations that doesn't differenciate between gold producing and others doesn't seem like a good general rule to me. Either the gold producing/reduce locations are required in most cases or they aren't. If they are then the question is how many you put in your deck. And I agree that it can vary based on plot cards, the cost of the rest of your deck or other considerations but like I said I'm looking for some kind of general rule.

I'd say it is closer to 10 than 15 then. Start with 10 and play the deck, then tweak from there. Given how this game works with plots resource cards are not near as important as they are in a game like Magic or to a lesser extent WoW.

eprieur said:

10 sounds pretty solid, and don't forget about the Seas for discount; they are 0 cost non-Limited cards, even if they can only be used once they are still worth it. If you have Princes of the Sun and can play Martell, they also have Palace Fountains... You'll almost always need some gold or reducing locations, but it can vary greatly; I have some decks that get away with as few as 6, I have one deck that has 18 locations, 15 of which produce gold or give a discount.

I tend to use as many income cards till they add up to 15 gold income/reduction "value".

The 1 gold locations are simply 1 gold, a 2 cost-reducer is counted as two, the seas are rated 1 gold 'cause I can use them only once but at the time I need them.

So 3 character reducer locations could substitute 6 1 gold locations. But you have to be careful that certainly does not work if you are running a lot of neutral characters.

Also I tend to prefer locations that give me gold advantage at once like the streets over 1-gold-locations that give me their advantage in the next round.

I agree with the general sentiment that ~10 income/cost reducers is closer, with possibly another 3 to 5+ locations with useful effects (like Golden Tooth Mines, Lady Danaery's Chambers, Frozen Outpost, etc).

Unless you are building a control-oriented deck, 30 characters is probably the bare minimum. I would shoot for around 33-34 characters (a faster, aggro-focused deck may run 37+), with about 15 locations (total) and the rest as events/attachments. Of course, special builds will be different (for example, if you play a Greyjoy deck with a bunch of weenies with your average character costing less than 2 gold, then you can swap out gold/reducer locations for cards like Scouting Vessel and/or play closer to 38 characters). Keep in mind that you should also include a draw engine along with your income/gold...you don't want to be drawing only 2 cards each round. I usually like to include at least 7-9 cards that allow me to draw/reveal/recur cards. In a Lanni deck, that would probably mean up to 3x Golden Tooth Mines (or as many as you have), 1x Tommen, 2-3x Insidious Ways, 1-2x Gold Cloaks, and possibly also Qyburn's Informers. If you're not worried about what is tournament legal, then 3x Pyromancer's Cache would be a good addition (this attachment has been banned from tournament play).

If you're short on characters/locations and plan to play casually, then it may be better to use 40-card decks instead of 60. Just scale the number of each type of card proportionately. That way you aren't just adding crappy (or unsuitable) cards just to get to 60.

You seem to be shying away from/reluctant to buy another core set. I'm a new player and just recently started deckbuilding, but listened to the advice of multiple players on many threads and bought a second core set before any of the chapter packs (although I did buy PotS and KotS since I wanted the other houses). Anyway I'm glad I spent the money on the second core. Although there were lots of "cool" cards I wanted from chapter packs, I couldn't really imagine trying to build (basic yet fun and functional) 60-card decks with just one core and some chap packs (not with the flexibility of building decks for every house, and not with being the sole card provider for my group, at least...)

I have indeed bought another core set + some like king of the north and sea which add a few common cards + alot of specific cards to really start building different decks.

What I'm having trouble right now are the "counters" to non characters cards like locations. For example with the starks I can play frozen solid to have a shot at countering some of the more troublesome locations from the opponent. With the baratheon you have the permanent solution of salladhor saan but I have yet to find something for the lannister and the targs that work.

And now the starks have bear island in their deck and maybe it's just my noob eyes, but I really have an hard time seeing how the other decks can win when the starks already have so many kill effects and then they get a bear island out that you can't remove. You are basically losing characaters each turn to the claim, then to the cards effects and then if you have something still alive bear island remove it.

Also the counters to the effects like The Hand's Judgement seem nearly required in tons of decks but are few and far between (and this card is a *1 in the pack it's in, basically meaning if you want to put that cards * 2 in a few decks you need that pack 6+ times).

But thanks for the answers, keep them coming!

eprieur said:

Each house has different strengths and weaknesses and so some of them will be better at location/attachment/character control than others.

Some neutral location control which might help you:

Condemned by the Council (1x in A Time of Trials)

Pyromancer's Apprentice (1x The Battle of Blackwater Bay)

The Price of War (1x Kings of the Sea)

Climbing Spikes (if running a wildling deck) (3x A King in the North)

War Horn (1x The Winds of Winter)

Greyjoy

Veteran Marauder (1x Kings of the Sea)

Lannister

Alchemist's Guild Hall (3x The Battle of Blackwater Bay)

I wouldn't say counters like The Hands Judgement is required, but that is the unfortunate part of the old card counts. It can be very expensive trying to get a playset of some cards. On the bright side there are places online where you can grab some of those old chapter packs for like ~7 dollars.

The Hand's Judgement is nice, but other events are probably more important. Consider that if you are using The Hand's Judgement you will have a card in the deck that is only useful when an opponent plays an event and you have gold available; that means any events played in Plot, Draw, Taxation, and Marshalling (if that player is Marshalling before you) cannot be cancelled, and you're holding gold that could be better spent elsewhere. You may want to use other events that are useful to your deck more consistently.

Darksbane, thanks for the list. I realised that I had one Condemned byt the Council but I read it wrong and I thought it suck so I can use that, probably in the lannister deck.

And for the Hand's Judgement, I agree it's more limited in this game and that the 1 gold requirement is a problem unless you have a card like Tywin or you skip taxation or something similar. It's probably better in those decks also for those reasons.

It's just that I see cards like lethal counterattack and die by the sword and it feels to me that there has to be some counters to those cards.

eprieur said:

When it comes to some events you just have to play around them. For Lethal Counterattack intrigue challenges are your best friend. If you are playing against a Stark deck almost any house should be able to win intrigue challenges against them. Drain their hand as much as you can before you military challenge them.

eprieur said:

Yeah, The Hand's Judgement. It's powerful card - if someone says that it's not useful, you don't have to agree with him. It depends on the deck and opponent's deck.