My question is this, how much power do the acolytes have? By power, I don't mean physical power, as that is pretty clear after running a short adventure with them. I am talking about their influence over the world.

I have just started running DH with a few of my friends and I started them off with Shattered Hope. As soon as the players set foot on Sepheris Secundus they walked around like they owned the place, flashing their Inquisitorial Seals to everyone and commandeering people around. They even suspected the Commisar of heresy and had him confined to the hab block, and requisitioned as much weapons and explosives they could from the quartermaster.

When seargent Raynard started mouthing off to them they all but put a bullet in his head, but stayed their hands and instead ordered him to send a squad of guardsmen down the mine with them.

This might sound very bad, but I feel I handled it well enough. Sure, I gave them a squad of guardsmen, but I made sure they were killed in quick succession after producing a bit more mutants for the group to handle, and I had the quartemaster tell them he only had 10 grenades (though I suspect an Imperial Guard qaurtermaster must have an enourmos stock of weapons, my poor knowledge of the 40k universe not withstanding).

I have agreed to run another adventure for them this weekend. I haven't read it yet, but I think I'll go with Edge of Darkness since many seem to like that one. I understand it deals with a lot of investigation and whatnot, so I naturally worry my players will be top blunt in their ventures. What's to stop them from commandeering the planet governmor into giving them whatever they can think of?

The short answer would be: just enough to get them into trouble, not quite enough to get them out of it.

Either way, the easiest way to go about it is to say that they have exactly as much authority as their Inquisitor confers upon them, plus whatever else they can gain in any given situation (an Arbitrator with an Arbites - as opposed to local enforcement - background can throw his weight around as an officer of the Law, while I've seen Sanctioned Psykers use the fact that they're Sanctioned Psykers to imply, but never openly state, that they're working for some greater power; equally, cover identities might grant conditional power in certain situations).

When you're working through discrete missions given by a superior, their initial briefing should explain how much authority they can bring to bear, if any. Edge of Darkness is a good starting point, actually, because the group are working undercover and are told to expect no immediate back-up or acknowledgement from their Inquisitor or the Interrogator giving them the mission... it's a good way to start a campaign, IMO, and it's far easier to start them with no authority (from the perspective of getting them accustomed to autonomy and discretion) before you grant them some as a reward for their successes.

By being chosen as Acolytes, the PCs have somehow demonstrated that they might be valuable to the Inquisition. It's up to them now to demonstrate how valuable and in what capacity. There's no point giving authority to a cell that only exists as bait to expose a cult you're hunting, but those groups who accomplish their missions time and again with discretion, tact and efficiency should always be rewarded with increasing authority and status as they reward their Inquisitor's trust in their abilities.

Interesting one - its really up to you to decide where they stand in the Inqusition and how much trust that their Inquisitor (and hence power) puts in them. May be worth making it clear that they (unless of Interogator rank or higher or given special status) are merely instrucments of the Inquisitors will and he/ she is reponsible for all their actions and deeds to the Imperial Authorities (and the Inquisitors peers). Any mistakes made therefore reflect on the Inquisitor.................If his or her acoyltes make a complte mess of things in terms of trying to take over the planet then they quite likely to find there Inquisitoinal authority removed and declared Traitors themselves and either quietly removed or exposed as "imposters"

On the specifics problems - it they are not subtle then make sure that the opposition responds appropriately - whether that be repeated assassination attempts or abandoning their plots and lying low. Have various people react as if they are being investigated - the Imperial Quartermaster may be selling equipment of and try to conceal things for instance. Normally people are afraid of the Inquisiton and often have something to hide...............

You could always have another Inquisitor arrive to chastise them (Maybe execute or pubically torture one) - put everything in order and gleefully contact his or her rival (the players Inqusiitor) to inform them of his acolytes failings.

The more power they ammass the more complictaed life can become - have everyone expect them to have all the answers and pointedly make it clear they are acting on their orders at all times. You can always overwhelm them with desperate pople trying to out do themselves in finding plots / descrediting others and evening socres by "reporting them to the Inqusitor"

A more senior member of the Inq retinue can warn them of these potentially problems

Also did the players define how and why they are members of the Retinue (if not I would suggest you may wish to discuss this prior to the session) - try to get them to say why they serve the Inquisiton.

On the other hand - if you are happy for them to have power and they use it wisely / in context can be interesting to go with it - some players need boundry's to be established so they know what they can and can not do - if this is the case - talk it thorugh with them.

not sure if this is of any help?

King of Sand said:

I can tell you right now...if you're worth half your salt as a GM and they try to play through Edge of Darkness with that same heavy-handed crap they pulled in Shattered Hope, they'll fail the mission in less than 10 minutes.

*spoilers* The minute they flash a Rosette and start slinging their weight around, the entire district will be overrun by plague-bearing bodysnatchers, they'll have a running gunbattle with a dozen trained mercenaries who should be as well armed and armored as they are, and their primary target will disappear from sight before they've even seen her. Congratulations, boys. Job well done. Sector inhabitants annihilated. Contagion spreading along the rails to the mid-hive. Heretek target escaped to restart operations elsewhere, being more careful next time. Enjoy your demotions.

As for your other concern? Yeah...I'd like to see a handful of Grade D no-name Acolytes try and strongarm Lord Sector Marius Hax into submission. If he doesn't execute them himself, you better believe that their Inquisitor will.

In terms of what is stopping them from making these hamfisted mistakes in the first place? You are, sir. Honestly...it is obvious by your comments that this is not the type of Dark heresy game you're interested in running. If you wanted to sit back and draw up The Big Foozle while your merry band of Superheroes plow their way through everything that moves without a single, solitary regard for theme, style, story, or substance, there are dozens of game systems that you could be running for them.

But you're running Dark heresy. By design, this game isn't MEANT to be played this way. Sure, you CAN run DH in this fashion, if you're sitting at the table with half a dozen teenage kids who get pouty when you tell them that the Bulging biceps' talent doesn't let them dual-wield lascannons. But why? The basic game design itself offers so much more than that. You're the GM. Shut that nonsense down or tell them to pick a different game system. Power's in your hands, man.

Thank you for all of your replies. Those are all very good tips for a newbie DM in Dark Heresy. Still, I guess my original question stands, since I don't believe any of you actually provided me with a real limit to their powers, except for what their master tells them they can and cannot do. In the case of Shattered Hope, they lacked any real premises or orders - all they knew was they had to investigate a mine for possible chaotic taint- so I had to just go by feel in that one.

In the book it says that an Inquisitor, by showing his Inquisitorial Seal, can expect a planetary governor to do pretty much whatever he wishes, unless he himself wants to be thought of suspicious for not helping the Inquisition and summarily executed. Does this extend to acolytes as well? I assumed it did since by showing their Seals they are working on the orders of an Inquisitor and could therefore be seen as an extension of him. Looking past any real game terms here, does an acolyte of the Inquisition, by Imperial law, have the right to execute whomever they wish if they believe him to be a heretic? Do they have the right boss around Imperial Guardsmen, and even their Commisars? Does their actual judicial power extend to these circumstances?

Many acolytes never have an Inquisitorial seal. They operate for the good of the Imperium with nothing to show their allegiance or give away their true place in the Emperor's favor. If the Inquisition needs obvious operatives, they send in stormtroopers, possibly with proven acolytes at the helm (who will likely need to hide their faces the whole time they operate in the open just like DEA agents do in real life), but most acolyte cells operate with little support and no real authority beyond what they can personally bring to bear so subtlety and resourcefulness are the key components to such cells. Exceptions certainly exist...

King of Sand said:

To an extent. Though it's never been released, to my knowledge, the original playtest drafts of the DH rules (about two years ago now) contained background that made a useful distinction here:

A Seal is a very specific, unique object possessed only by an Inquisitor as his badge of office. They are almost never revealed, and represent the full weight of his authority.

A Rosette is a device displaying the emblem of the Inquisition in some form, that marks the bearer as being in the service of the Inquisition. Inquisitors may carry them for situations when their importance does not need to be concealed, often worn on their clothing or emblazoned upon armour or weapons. Equally, they may be given to Acolytes and other servants to show that they are operating under the authority of the Inquisition.

King of Sand said:

The following is all opinion:

No.

For all intents and purposes, Acolytes are still bound by the law, and while they may be granted remit within particular situations (as appropriate to their investigations at the time) to do as they require to get the job done, their authority is relatively meagre and finite.

The benefit they get, however, would be the potential to avoid the consequences of crimes committed within the course of their duties - flash the rosette and instruct the arresting officer to "talk to my boss, he'll sort this out". In some cases, merely doing this will be enough for certain law enforcement agencies to decide that it's not worth the trouble; in others, the Acolytes may be detained for some time until their claims can be proven. Either way, it's simpler to just not get into trouble in the first place, so the majority of Acolyte Cells tend to work discretely unless they have something specific to back up their rosettes.

When it comes to securing aid and resources, it again comes down to the willingness of other organisations to recognise the authority of the Inquisition without an actual Inquisitor being present. Unless an Inquisitor's seal is revealed and an Inquisitor's authority is personally brought to bear, nobody has to do anything for the Inquisition... but they might choose to anyway, particularly if there's good reason to do so.

In both cases, it's a combination of fear of the Inquisition, and the manner in which the Acolytes conduct themselves which determine just how much they can get away with. Beyond that, there's the other important matter - the Inquisitor himself. Acolytes attempting to use his authortity in a manner which the Inquisitor disagrees with... should not expect to be let off easily.

Thank you for that opinion!

I feel I can get behind this thinking, and wonders if this isn't the way it's supposed to be. Anyway, I feel much better equipped to handle my next mission and make sure the players don't get out of hand. Looking forward to do some more investigative stuff in Edge of Darkness in contrast to Shattered Hope.

I have one simple way to handle what players may requisition and what they may not: Acolytes handbook from Dark Reign. It has advancement tables for every rank (1-8) which are intended to be available to all careers in addition to career-specific advancement tables, and they include talent-like system for Inquisition-sponsored income and rights to requisition equipment and personnel. For example, rank 2 acolyte may pay 100 xp to buy right to requisition basic equipment like las pistols and micro-beads while rank 5 acolyte may buy right to requisition Imperial Guard's or local PDF's assistance. This may seem like a bit too mechanic way to handle situation, but it may also serve as guideline what the acolytes may be able to get if they try to throw their weight around.

Additional hints for Evil GMs:

Remember that your acolytes are not operating in a static environment, and they aren't the only ones out there. An excellent way of making this lesson stick is to have another Inquisitor (from another ordo, perhaps) have his own team undercover in the environment the PCs are in. They may not be after the same target, and may not ever meet the PCs, but the actions of the PCs will affect them. The beauty of this is that if the PCs show their true ID, or rock the boat sufficiently that they scare of any illegal operations going on they will have blown the operation of the other Inquisitor.

Imagine it:

Ordo Xenox have been working for several years on a clandestine operation to infiltrate a cult smuggling vile xeno creatures to Scintilla for use in proscribed blood pits. The operatives of Inqusitor Van Vuygens have been piecing together the structure of the cult, including the ignorant pawns involved with illegal shipping as well as those with links to the cult proper. Ordo Xenox was waiting for the final pieces of information and the proper time to strike, when something went horribly wrong.

All of the sudden a bunch of assholes turn up, shoot some people, flash Inquisition IDs and generally throw their weight around.

In response to the information of Inqusitional investigation, several organizations with things to hide take steps towards damage control, amongst them the cult under investigation by Ordo Xenos. These steps include "Cleaning House" and "Cut and Run". This includes purging their organization of any and all expendable resources, expunging all possible leads to the cult proper, termination of operations and removal of any and all evidence of prior activities. In this purge, at least one undercover agent of Van Vuygens team is killed.

While this is happening, the PCs may actually find what they are looking for and may be congratulationg themselves on a job well done.

Imagine the smiles dropping from their faces as they return to their Inqusitor and find him not-so pleased to have been forced to explain to his collegue Van Vuygens why his operation was destroyed and his operatives killed.

+++++In response to the information of Inqusitional investigation, several organizations with things to hide take steps towards damage control, amongst them the cult under investigation by Ordo Xenos. These steps include "Cleaning House" and "Cut and Run". This includes purging their organization of any and all expendable resources, expunging all possible leads to the cult proper, termination of operations and removal of any and all evidence of prior activities.+++++

This does show one way to spoil every fiendish plan in an area - flash a rosette, then watch every cultist in the area self destruct and arrest and put to the question anyone who tries to run for it.

You'll probably blow 15-20 heretical operations you have never even heard of. Just walk though a square with an =I= held up, then come through with a cleanup crew to collect all the suicided bodies.

--

In short, the bad guys can't disappear because the Inquisition are looking for them. The Inquisition are ALWAYS looking for them. If they self destruct at the first sign of someone sniffing about they would never get anyware.

One of the interesting inferences I'm going to make from the GAME, is that only when an acolyte is confired Legate status do they have the true authority of the Inquisition and only in a very strict sense based off on a very specific investigation, but in that very specific investigation they have the full power of the Inquisition.

The GAME then goes on to say that Legate status is rarely given (and without the book in front of me its what, a level 4 or 5?)

By inference then, any Acolyte without legate authority has practically no authority what-so-ever outside of the threat of "I work for an Inquisitor, you interfer with my investigation I'm going to include it in my report.". Assuming the Acolyte doesn't go missing right there to stop said report from happening, they don't have any authority outside of that, from inference. Basically think of it as the political version of "I'm going to tell my Daddy on you".

After that its how much authority the Inquisitor wants to give. Heck, as much as I hated Eisennhorn, he makes a good point where he rarely throws his Inquisitor status around (though he does do it often enough), while at other points in the story there are Inquisitors who walk in the open. My guess is that if their Inquisitor likes quiet investigations with little or no disruptions, then well he may have a "strong talking to" his Acolytes. If he likes loud, obnoxious investigations that put the fear in the community, he may like it the other way.

Also, something that wasn't mentioned in Shattered Hope, is the backgroup of the Commisar. Twist it around, make him the son of an important Noble or decorated General with all kinds of connections, and then introduce him as an ally in your first home-made adventure, then watch how far they go. Have them piss off a Justicar while breaking the law, and have them "confined" while he checks to make sure they really are Inquisitors and not fakes, ruining their mission (just make sure its a Justicar with some pull, you know one who has worked closely with some very powerful members of the Inquisition in past investigations you know that kind of thing).

Better yet, through another powerful Inquisitor into the mix, and have him working under-cover and have the pushy alcolytes ruin his investigation with their push attitudes, and watch their survival timer kick into overdrive, or even have them ruin an investigation of their own Inquisitor and maybe a Interegator who works for their own Inquisitor, who they didn't know was around. Bunch of no-name alcolytes vs an Interrogater, wonder whose is going to win that one.

Or even then, just have them throw around their "Alcolyte status" to whoever they want, tipping off the heretic they are supposed to arrest, then have the heretic set up a very, very deadly trap for them, with 2:1 odds against the Alcolytes with better armed assassins and mercenaries. Or lets see how well their "alcolyte" status works when said heretic finds out who they are and lets loose demonspawn or something equally bad, or simply in the night blows up their hotel while they sleep killing all inside (including many of the alcolytes).

Then quietly explain to them why it all happened when they start complaining.

I do think it is worth noting that pretending to bully people can be vastly entertaining. I don't think it unfair to say many roleplayers will be unable to get enough of bossing about NPCs.

It therefore surely behoves us to invent adventures that will not be derailed, and may even work better, if the PCs barge in like, well, agents of the holy inquisiton.

A big kind might be ghost stories - the PCs can round up and torture every NPC in the area, but it will neither necesscerily aid nor hinder their ability to discover why the gargoyles on the local cathedral are getting up and walking about if said supernatural horror is not the result of a diabolical scheme but rather an ancient and long forgotten accident involving building it on an ancient slann burial ground.

Dezmond said:

Totally true, if that's the type of story the GM and Players both want to run, then in no way shape or form is that wrong. As long as its fun for all parties, then its right.

My answer of course was in response to how to prevent though such bullying, aka bullying the planetary govenor. If their bullying is derailing the storyline, and the GM has issues with it, well then its up to the GM to find creative IC ways to stop said bullying. I would still love to see some minion Alcolyte bully an ally of Lord Hax, and see just how far that goes.

But as long as its fun for all involved, then so be it.

Dezmond said:

I disagree. The Inquisition are always looking for people up to no good, but they're not always making waves in your neighbourhood. Any large cult like the Logicians or the Beast House will not take the risk of serious compromise if they can avoid it by purging some non-important cells in risk of discovery. A bunch of morons waving their badges around will not make them flee, but sure signs of investigations, with fellow scumbags going missing or being taken in for questioning... it can only be a matter of time before they stumble onto you. Better get out and relocate than to stick around and take unnecessary chances.

Running around with your Big I badge on display is sure to get you killed in my game, there are plenty of people with a grudge out there looking to get one back.

Darth Smeg said:

Worse yet, piss enough people off, whose going to come get to your aid when the chips are down. Funny how that transmition for backup got garbled when you sent it because the heretics didn't run, but your party of 6 instead stumbled upon a full Chaos Marine, a daemonhost pet, and their army of mutant abominations just because you arrested the govenors daughter, the sergent of the guard, and the justicars wife.

**** I guess you shouldn't have pissed them off huh.

Some of my players displayed the same cockiness .. "we're on a holy mission from the God Emperor. Cooperate or die" - well that's a bit exaggerated, but to my amusement they had an attitude that in no way depended on their actual power .. it was their first session

I think Acolytes should 9 out of 10 times work undercover, and keep their identities and motives hidden until they dispatch with whatever threat they were sent to investigate. if they don't do this naturally, their Inquisitor can always point it out.

Btw acolytes do not have a rosette or an Inquisitorial seal, so they shouldn't able to flash one around!

IIRC the team in Scourge the Heretic novel have exactly that power even if they are mostly reasonably discrete with it....

Hi King of Sand

If you need a handout map for Edge of Darkness then you can download one from www.annebo.dk in the roleplay section.

+++++Some of my players displayed the same cockiness .. "we're on a holy mission from the God Emperor.+++++

Sounds like fun.

Our GM has given us rosettes when we have proven ourselves which in game terms usually means get to rank 3 without doing anything really bad. He also knows how to punish us if we get to cockey. We were allowed to requisition stuff from the Inquisitorial armoury ... until the Inquisitor got the bill and shut that right down (I got a case of Bolt Pistol ammo under someone elses name so I was chuffed). We tend to be allowed to throw our weight around when it doesnt really matter. In one case we were there to help the local enforcers who were besieged by a cult and were running out of supplies and ammo so we were allowed to boss them round all we wanted but they had nothing to give us so it didn't really matter.

If you are going to be in a very public environment stress the need for secrecy (and the punishment for pissing off Inquisitors ). If they have nothing of use to your accolytes let them throw thier weight around all they want and then hit them with a cult who think they are after them, or someone whos life was ruined by the Inquisition who wants revenge and has the means. Remember the Inquisition is a powerful force with very powerful enemies.

Kaihlik

I guess to me, as I think about it, their are two sides to the coin.

a) How much power do your alcolytes have?

b) Should they use that power?

The answer to (a) is as many people have said, as much as your Inquisitor gives them. The more I think of it, in my group, our group has an aweful lot of power. With a Commisar, an Arbitrator, and an Adept, the only branch that really is immune to the powers we have outside of the Inquisition is the ministorium, and some powerful Nobles. So our Inquisitor fills in those blanks, so.. yes.. I suppose we do have quite a bit of power. Course we're a bit higher on the level spectrum but still...

The question is do we and should we use it, and when should we use it becomes the question. While our party isn't adverse to using it, we use it sparingly. If I can get a platoon of Imperial Guard, and access to their armory, without resorting to Inquisitorial power, then why should I use it and run the risk of tipping off my target, or driving them underground, or giving them time to prepare for the inevitable fight.

Course if someone wants to play "This is my armory and go pound your head in the sand" I have no problems of waving Inquisitorial authority in front of them, assuming I really need that armory, which often I don't.

Remember its up to the GM to decide if any action requires and equal and opposite action. Blatent Obvious action by inquisitors is going to make heretics go silent and dorment. Running around demanding cases of bolts is going to tip them off that they may want to bobbytrap the sewers leading to their lairs, and set up kill zones, ambushes, and call up that daemonspawn they've been holding on to. Either that or start going all terrorist and blowing up habs. Do the Alcolytes really want all those innocent deaths on their hands, and if they don't care, are all those innocents going to allow the Alcolytes to keep working without an accident occuring to them.

Also an Alcolytes power is fleeting. Embarress their Inquisitor, piss off another Inquisitor, or anger someone with contacts to the Inquisition, and suddenly your Alcolytes may find themselves in a very dark, very deep Inquisitorial prison under charges of Heresy themselves. I seem to remember a short published adventure where one of the places you go has a small group of Sisters working there. Do the Alcolytes really want to try and strong arm a group of very well trained warriors who are also the military wing of an Ordo?

Everything has an concequence, some are good, some aren't, and its up to the GM to throw those concequences out there. Immature players however may not take it very well that their strongarm tactics caused them all to die in a blatent ambush, even when explained exactly and realistically how the heretics knew they were coming. Mature players will nod, make changes, curse a bit, reroll their characters, and go have fun again.

Alot depends on the type of players you have.

You need to get the PCs under control. You could do what I did with my online game. (The guys in my regular group knows me well enough not to be a pain about power, money, and gear.) The PCs 1st mission was simply to discreetly insert themselves into the sector capital. (Before edge of darkness.) In passing their boss causally mentioned they could equip themselves from the armory. The armory consists of a number of rooms with everything from ganger quality firearms to bolters, and full =][= storm trooper kit. (carapace armor, and hellguns) The PCs of course go hog wild grab a few bolters, crates of grenades, carapace armor and the like. (Half of it with the =][= stamped on it.) Then get a shuttle to the hive.

At which point they realized they need to get through customs with their gear with =][= marking..... So they decided to just flash the id paper their boss gave them. Of course they encounter a group of Arbriters who "just happen" to be doing a spot inspection. The PC with their paper work tries to discretely flash it to the head Arbiter. Who just pockets the document, and orders the PCs belongings searched. (Make sure the PCs are over matched by x2, and have a psyker, or null if need be.) Between the choke & hallucinogen grenades and the opposition having rebreathers. The end the PCs ended up in jail awaiting execution for stealing imperial property. One extremely injured PC was also charged with assaulting an Arbiter. The 2 Nobles were in addition charged with killing themselves, and assuming their own identity.

In the end the head Arbiter pulled a number of people vaguely resembling the PCs out of another cell, and had them executed. He then pulled them into a separate room and gave them the dead men's cogs. Showing them paper work from their Inquistor detailing that he was to check their ability to perform convert insertions, follow orders and perform any necessary corrective actions. As a result the PCs ended up losing everything they, owned, and their very identities for not following orders. Being dead the nobles lost their monthly allowance, and the PCs had almost no source of income until they proved their worth. (Currently they are paid quite well after proving themselves.) After the mission one of the PCs had the nerve to argue with their boss about their treatment, his analysis of their performance with edge of darkness and got himself spaced. He actually survived 3 rounds until someone offered insure his good behavior... By insure I mean if the other guy screwed up he got spaced. (On the plus side he did have permission to shoot of the wayward accolyte under his care if he judge it needed.)

PS- If in edge of darkness they blow their cover. Just have the bad guys bug out, and have the entire area purged to contain things. Have their boss make them watch as storm troopers are dragging women and children out of their homes and purged with fire. Don't make them fear they might be punished if they fail. Make them fear that 100s, 1000s, or even world might be doomed by their failure. Have Sands tell them watching is their punishment for failure. And mutter that supervising the purge is his punishment for putting his trust in them.

And this was... Fun?

Sounds fun to me