Does a superior shield add any bonus to block?

What is the effect of superior armour?

(fighting a sinus infection today so I'm not thinking clearly)

Thanks,

jh

It is not written in stone. The Superior quality for a crafted item should add a Fortune dice where relevant. For weapon it adds to the WS skill check (from the book). There was a discussion about it in the rule forum i think.

Anyway, my choice was to add a Misfortune dice to the attacker, so it's about the same as adding +1 Defence to the Armor. It is a bit more powerful than +1 Fortune for a weapon, since you only get to attack once per round, whereas you can get attacked lots of times. I will limit it at the 1st defence.

The other major point of Superior Quality items is the social perception. Those neat things get you noticed and/or categorized easily, being positive or negative depending on the context (slums, noble's mansion, etc.)

Superior quality armor items essentially do not really protect significantly better than the average versions of the same armor. Instead, they are better fitted, possibly weigh less, and might provide fortune dice to certain rolls.

I would be very cautious about providing them additional misfortune dice when attacked.

For example, Cloth armor has 0 Def 1 Soak. Superior cloth would have 1 Def 1 Soak ... which is the same as Brigandine armor?

Leather has 0 Def 2 soak. Superior leather has 1 def 2 soak, which is the same as a mail shirt?

No, I'd follow the rules and provide different bonuses for superior quality armors other than trying to increase their effectiveness at defense.

I've yet to have a player buy expensive armor/weapons... but if they did buy surperior armor, I'd talk with them to agree on some bonus.

Bonuses would vary from faster to equip (mainly for more complex armor like plate and such), more durable (my 2nd edition campaign one player learned that his negligence to maintain his armor took it's toll), and against pierce 2+ I lower the pierce by 1. Also thought that against very hard attacks, like from trolls and such, the armor would have 1 higher soak. Again it depends on the armor, and what makes sense. Is good quality leather better than standard, and in what way?

Anyway, I make sure to tell my players that maintaining weaponry/armor, is part of the game, just like ordering food at a tavern and not take it granted that they eat all the time. Just 5 secs sentence "I clean my armor and look for damages".

rezzing a topic. shocked this doesn't come up more.

book states superior gives situational Fortune dice at cost of 10x coin cost, but then describes weapons as always getting a Fortune bonus.

boosting def or soak all the time might be excessive, but it's worth exploring. reducing encumbrance for the armor seems like a good idea, but many campaigns virtually ignore encumbrance anyway.

i guess it would depend on the type of armor. for example, leather i could see allowing a def boost to 1, because you could say the armor was made with leather that was expertly crafted to make it supple in joint areas yet tough and reinforced in a way that still contributes additional soak.

a superior shield, i really like the idea of just decreasing encumbrance.

would love more people to share their views.

Depends on a lot of things.

One of my payers when we are playing another roleplaying game likes to add horns, teeth etc. from monsters he killed to his armour just to look cool.
A superior armour/shield could have these spikes and might add extra fortune dice to intimidate checks, which could be useful when using "Fear Me!" for example.

Another version of a superior armour might be well built to stand against rain and wind and add fortune dice to resiliance checks when resisting the effects of bad weather.

A superior armour/shield with some jewels and artwork might add fortune dice to charm and leadership.

The list goes on and depends largely on the players and what they want from their armour and how they want it to look. However the price (x10) is kind of high for a fortune die on some few checks so lowered encumberance, shorter time to put the armour on, easier to maintain and similar might be good extra.

I would be careful adding a constant defence though, but maybe situational defence, like a shield that adds one extra misfortune die when using the block action.

I house ruled it differently:

Quality/Upgraded items
Superior items cost has changed to the original item price plus the
bonus amount in Appendix I (varies by frequency of item use and color
of die bonus). Poor quality items still cost 50% of an average item. PC
cannot benefit from same item effect at the same time (stacking limit).
Armor Quality
Poor: Cannot use Dodge or Improved
Dodge
Superior 50% encumbrance
Shield Quality
Poor: Cannot use Block or Improved
Block
Superior 50% encumbrance
Ammunition Quality (cost is per bunch)
Poor (black die to attack)

Ghazi said:

The problem with adjusting the stats of armor comes up when you factor in cost. It takes a lot of money to get that next soak point.

For example, if you add 1 soak for superior leather, then you end up with armor that soaks as much as chain mail, weighs less and costs half as much.

In that same example if you just added a defense, then you basically have a lighter chain shirt for the same cost.

It plays out better at the larger armors, but at the low end you end up with situations that make no sense.

When I GM, superior versions of the lower armors give a fortune die for social situations. The superiority isn't in how hard it is (because, really how much more resistant can you make leather), it's in the craftsmanship and styling. Plate armors have much more to work with, and can end up with extra points.

I agree that letting superior armour be like superior clothes, social die for social - particularly battlefield leadership etc. - makes sense. More expensive at x10 armour than a x10 set of clothes. Some other small helper like -1 Enc due to good fit might be due.

I would make a bonus to armor/shields depend on the type of armor and where its stats lie.

A suit of platemail could be made with a superior material and thus increase soak. Or it might be gilded with gems or precious stones, giving a bonus to leadership checks.

A suit of cloth might be made to be less restrictive thus increasing the defense bonus on Dodge.

Robes could be reinforced with a few leather patches to increase to a single point of soak vs melee.

It depends on what the players ask and how much they are willing to spend, if a player is willing to spend more than the standard x10 price, I might be willing to go a little further with abilities. Its roleplay, anything is possible.

The Defense and Soak values of the various armors are too limited in range to allow adjustment for quality. You'll end up giving superior cloth armor the same values as leather or chainmail, or whatever, because the differences between "levels" of armor (cloth/leather/metal) are pretty much only a point or two of Defense/Soak.

There are plenty of bonuses you can give to superior armors instead.

For example, I rule that metal armors have a +2 misfortune die to most agility type rolls, as well as activities like swimming or climbing, and leather armors have a +1. Superior quality will reduce that penalty. Additionally, superior armors give a bonus fortune die in most social situations (when dealing with folks that care about appearance). I'd also probably allow a player (who asks) to get a superior item that weights 1 enc less. So, there is plenty of benefit for having a superior version of something that isn't a weapon.

Dv,

Consider your ideas stolen and put in my house rulebook

jh

what you say makes a lot of sense, dvang.

Actually (I hate this argument, it comes up alot, and there's alot of good statistical arguments) our problem has been resolved somewhat in the rules. Yes, the rules.

If you look at the Myrmidia spell Bless Armor (rank 1) (p. 194 revised book). I'll quote:

"While this blessing is recharging the affected suit of armor is considered an item of superior quality. It's soak value may not be ignored by effects that normally igrnore armor soak value, and Pierce value of any attack that targets the wearer is reduced by 2."

If you like myrmidia to be special or 'more' you can temper the second half of that argument, or use any of the house-rules presented above of course. I strongly disagree that we add 'misfortune dice' to armor (which already is kind of paltry compared to attack bonuses) only so we can take it away for superior quality. I think this is possibly a more elegant solution.

Game on comrades!

shinma said:

Bravo!

On a related note.. what effect does a specialisation in Parry (for example in one handed weapon parry) give a character?

Slycat said:

On the rare occasion that you are rolling Weapon Skill to parry, it would factor in. Otherwise it doesn't affect the Parry action card at all.

I would rule that any situation where a special action was being used that specifically mentioned parry, would receive a bonus.

Seems a bit rubbish to specialise in parry!

I was considering:

Specialisation Parry - Hand Weapon: When parrying with a hand weapon a character may spend a fortune point to add a black dice to his opponents attack. Only one fortune point per round can be spent in this way.

Slycat said:

It just requires some creative thought by the player, more so than many of the other specialization choices. Does that make it rubbish? Perhaps, in a sense.

Why not just specialize in Hand Weapon?

I believe specialize in hand weapon gives a clear bonus already and some of the players have that already, they want to know what they'll get if they also specialise in parry