Hi,

Yesterday I was creating a new melee character and I stumbled over the Block Action.

It says I gain +1 missfortune die and if I trained Resilience I get another +1 missfortune die.

In my case I would gain +2 since I trained Resilience.

Now I would have the chance to buy Improved Block.

The Action card states that it replaces the Block Action.

Does this mean I trade +2 missfortune dice for 1 violet die? Sounds bad to me.

Or do I get the +1 violet in addition to the +2 missfortune dice?

Also, specialicing in Resilience (BLOCK) -> does it add an missfortune die whenever I block to the attackers pool?

Thanks for any answers!

We houserule that each training in resilience adds 1 black, when actively blocking, so with that rule you still get the extra black.

But apart from that I know what you mean, and found it strange to. I think 1 purple > 2 blacks, but not much really. It's marginally better.

If we say that main focus is getting swords (banes and such don't help you much, when your goal is for the opponent to miss!), then 2 blacks gives you roughly 44% chance of scoring 1 sword, and 11% chance of scoring double sword. And so total 55% chance of scoring either single or double. Now I'll move out of my league and assume that adds to 66% single swords over time (44%+2x11%)... I can't back this up math-wise, so feel free to stab me.

1 purple gives you 25% chance of single sword, but also 25% of double swords, that's only 50% chance of scoring a sword at all, but it's (using above math-wise weird logic) 75% single swords over time (25%+2x25%).

So with 1 purple you loose a chance of removing successes from the opponent with each roll, but the highly increased chance of removing 2, will over time mean you get hit less.

On top of that, with 1 purple there's 12½% risk of the dice giving you nothing usefull, while on the blacks there's 25% risk. And on purple you get the 12½% chance of chaos star... which for some actions has a nasty outcome.

So purple beats 2 blacks, but the problem lies in resilience benefitting with standard block, but not with improved, which to me seems wrong.

thanks for the reply - it made my brains hurt but I heard what you said (I'm bad with math)

Imo, your houserule makes a lot of sense and I will suggest this to my GM.

Thanks again!

thePREdiger said:

Be aware though, that in return the houserule allows monsters/npc's to add their expertice dice to defence (as black dice)... which for some mobs/npc's adds up substantially. I then, though, never let npc's/monsters use active defences, they have to spend agg/expertice dice for that. Saves some management.

a Challence dice (purple) is worse than 2 Misfortune dice (Black).

Challenge (d8) : there are 2 single challenge sides, 2 double challenge sides, 1 Bane side, 1 double Banes side, one Chaos Star side and 1 "nothing" side.

Misfortune (d6) : there are 2 single challenge sides, 1 single Bane side and 3 "nothing" sides.

1 Challenge : 25% of 2 Challenges, 25% of only 1 Challenge (50% of 1 or more Challenge)

2 Misfortunes : 11% of 2 Challenges, 55% of only 1 Challenge (66% of 1 or more Challenge)

When you add the Banes/CS potential and odds of "nothing", the Challenge dice will appear slightly worse (for the action being rolled).

I guess that's why some GMs houserule that the CS is also a reroll of the Challenge (some adding that it is also a Challenge + reroll or worse), if my numbers are right of course

Back at OP's question : Imp. Block only adds 1 Challenge dice, totally replacing Block.

I houserule that the defensive spec of each skill (Block for Resilience, Parry with x for WS, Dodge for Coordination) adds a Misfortune to the relevant action (Block or Imp. Block in our case) which makes the defensive spec usefull

Cwell2101 said:

You miss that the 25% against 11% chance of rolling 2 challenges, makes the purple better, because well... 2 challenges are best

Yes it is. When i say "it's worse for the action being attempted", i mean that the challege die is more damaging than 2 black dice

In our house rules a chaos star counts as a chaos star, two challenges and a reroll - which means we don't have this issue. It fixes a lots of combat balance as well.

Cwell2101 said:

I would understand the rule that way.

thx

Though I can see why you ask the question, and why you've made the house rules, I am of the opinion that Imp Block doesn't really need any help. It's already clearly better than Block since 1 Purple > 2 Black, but when you add on top of that the fact that it gives the special Soak increase, it becomes massively better. And it isn't like Resilience training is any less important, since it is required to get the card in the first place.

Still, to each his own, and I can see how you would think that Imp Block should just naturally carry over it's extension of dice with more blacks.

Btw, saw one place that someone used 2 defencive reactions (he parried and blocked) against the same attack. Can you do that?

You can use all your Active Defences against the same attack yes.

I would limit the use of Riposte & Counterblow though, the player would need to choose only one if he get missed (he won't get 2 free attacks in my game)

Cwell2101 said:

Totally backing this one up - 2 reaction attacks would be over the top.

thePREdiger said:

I disagree on that.
I think it is ok that you can do both reactions (and as far as I understand it that is what is written in the rules) because you have a cool down (3 or 4 but anyway it is longer then the active defence) on this actions which means they are out of the game for quite a while. So it is the decision of the player if she or he thinks that it is better to strike now at this target with all force or if you like to have a change to hit someone later. I think that is the same like active defences (you can also use them all at once)

This has already been discussed in other posts and that why i explicitly said "in my game".

You do what you want in your games.

Well, the way I see it: Imp. block/parry/dodge adds one purple dice to the pool (incl. the two black)

Thus, reading on the cards Improved replaces the original action in your deck. But it still counts for every other perk from the original action.

Timynator said:

You replace the 1 (or 2) black dice by 1 purple die, that is it. You don't get 1 purple and 1 (or 2) black dice.

The argument was about the ability to use both Riposte & Counterblow if you used Block & Parry in the same defence and got missed. As a GM, i find it not ok and i won't allow it in "my games" (just like i modified the Ironbreaker and other stuff). It was the subject of another message but the OP asked about Imp. Block and got it answered.