When did these threads go from, "gee, I'm itching to hear more," to, "their silence is hurting the game/proof that something bad is happening"?

Doc, the Weasel said:

Doc, I don't think the two feelings are mutually exclusive!

I am personally aquiver with anticipation over purchasing the guides and vaults because there has literally been *nothing* in this line for me to buy since August (my own fault - I went to GenCon). Unfortunately I'm a thoroughly modern consumer. I'm used to being saturated and/or bombarded with constant information about the things I want/need/must have (according to those advertising sources, anyway). With no news here my attention has wandered. I bought D&D Essentials. I bought Gamma World. I bought some Skaven and some Hordes and some Warmachine. Gods forgive me I bought WoW Cataclysm

There is a fine line between silence that builds anticipation and silence that kills interest. Given how much I *loves* me some WFRP3, I'm hoping the impending of the books and vaults gets us talking again.

Doc, the Weasel said:

For me it happened shortly before BI went **** up and then again when WFRP2 fell off the radar here - you start to see patterns and presume accordingly.

However, I'm happy to take Necrozius at his (or her) word, even though I have no idea who he (or she) is! I'm quite curious about what's going on.

Cheers

Sparrow

All this doom and gloom is a bit, well, absurd in my mind. We just got the hardbacks which support the entire system. If FFG was planning to sink this ship, do you really think we'd get a rules revamp and three new ways to access the cards/components?

I will agree the lack of "new" product did sort of shut down these boards somewhat. We have also lost the almost daily I hate 3e threads as well, which is a huge benefit in my opinion to the boards. At the same time I do agree that the hype has fallen a bit (as Caffeine boy pointed out) and it would be good if it was constantly being generated, but FFG is not supporting ten armies for one product like WOC and GW do. They are a company with a broad range of interests, their hands in many pots, and work very diligently to support all the products in their line. They are not a big house, they simply control the rights to produce some big house product support. So I just think we should be patient with all this.

I don't see why Caffeineboy dropped out of the game though. I have been playing it about six times a month since the game came out and I have no intention of stopping. I love it, my group(s) love it, and the new stuff is great when we get it, but we can play fine without it.

commoner said:

Remember what happened shortly after Dark Heresy was published?

Not quite the same situation, granted, but if you've been a WFRP fan long enough you tend to become somewhat cynical about these things. It would actually be nice to be wrong for a change.

Cheers

Sparrow

commoner said:

You could look at it ina cynical way - its FFGs last attempt to drum up a fan base for the game...

Not sure I believe this, but hey, if you wanna look for doom and gloom...

Well the main page has a new announcement. I knew it was just a matter of time, and its exactly the type of thing I expected next.

Give me the next sifting through shadows!

commoner said:

I think part of the problem is not all of us have gotten them, or gotten word as to when we will be getting them.

Necrozius said:

I am sorry but who are you? Are you an FFG moderator of staff? Your reassurance is based on what?

Herr Arnulfe said:

Not sure I follow you... but will answer from what I think you mean

I guess that's a matter of preferences really, and I'm not sure if there's a big enough audience for playing Wfrp with moral issues as main theme. I could be wrong though. Deathwatch and Rogue Trader works well, because it's about being super-duper fantastic heroes, and people dig that apparently.

If you sold a sideline to DH, that focused on players being part of society's lowest, or that wasn't about blowing up cultists, but about moral issues in the Empire, I don't think it would sell very well. Besides DH sells so well, because 40K tabletop sells so well, in my local GW games club, there's maybe 10% who play Fantasy only, while there's 60-70% who play 40K only, people like HUGE guns...

Regarding the system, then while I like Gumshoe and Burning Wheels idea of dice pools, and 6-sides dice, I think it works best in single scenarios. When you expand it to a campaign, majority wants a system where they can really micromanage their chars, and see them get better (buying actions, stats etc..), and while your chars does get better in the other ones, it gets hollow to many players I've talked to.

Again it's a matter of preferences, and it could be FFG should have dropped trying to compete with D&D and Pathfinder, and hold on to their cool setting, and then make it very rule-lite.

I like the road they took, because deep inside there's a system-geek trying to break out, and I have to feed him constantly with rules... But at the same time I dislike high-fantasy, so D&D will never be my thing.

But all that said, the discussion is not wether 3rd edition beats 2nd, or if 3rd edition sold out, or if FFG swindled customers, but that some people seems to jump on every rpg.net 3rd edition related thread to bash it. I don't understand the need to do it... it's actually in every Warhammer loving players interest that 3rd edition is a succes, because if not few will dare touch it for many years to come.

Yes, I know these people won't ruin the business themselves, but the reason I didn't want to play 3rd edition to begin with, was because someone on rpg.net said it was a boardgame, apparently the person never played it, but none the less that was the general idea spread. When that "idea" was killed, due to people actually playing it, they starting beating on price, career numbers, system, errors in rulebook, etc etc... It never stopped. That was when I began to think these people might actually just be after bashing it at all costs, and then I did some more in-deepth research.

skolo said:

was that not enough on this topic? ;-)

Smilodoner said:

I'll repeat what I said before. Why would they post a new preview pdf when they haven't released all the stuff that is in the old one? As far as I've seen they never do that, you won't get a new preview until the old material is at least "on the boat".

First you complain about the silence, and then when they have an update you seem to think that it's the wrong kind of update? I'd say that the news item they posted now is very needed. There have been people asking about the guides and core set both on this and other forums for months, the news item is a good info post for the guides/vaults.

commoner said:

Sorry, commoner. I didn't mean to give the impression that I dropped playing the game. I certainly haven't. I'm in the mist of my longest running WFRP campaign since I first ran The Enemy Within in the 1990s. But I'm a middle-aged guy with wife/kids/job/obligations/scheduling issues and my days of playing six times a month at *anything* are distant in the rear-view mirror. Most of my "gaming" now, aside from our biweekly-to-monthly sessions, comes from reading new gaming product and/or haunting fora discussing such. Since there hasn't been much new for WFRP, my attention has been attracted to the latest shiny bauble on the game store shelf. That's all I meant.

Spivo said:

Rather than getting hung up on the term "moral issues", imagine a combination of Burning Wheel and Unknown Armies in the Warhammer setting. I used "moral issues" because that's how horror usually manifests in good Warhammer material (via Chaos). There would still be monsters, magic and some fighting, but it would play more like a grown-up's game than a kid's game.

Herr Arnulfe said:

**** you! You're making me work overtime googling constantly... next is Unknown armies... okay got it

So what you would like, is a Warhammery setting/game, where the players (and in that sense also the world) dealt with Chaos within our hearts/minds, and not by fighting beastmen, chaos warriors, nurgle puking sorcerers?

That's how I play out my campaign, or well used to till 2 of my group fled out of country

Is the old woman a witch, just because she hangs dead cats outside her house? Are we fighting Chaos by slaughtering innocent, yet mutated children, or should we atleast give them a chance to prove wether or not they're a tool of Chaos? Is why I really liked scenes like Wittgenstein (did I get that right?) in TEW. Clearly everyone in that town/castle should have been put to the fires according to WH-codex, but they did no harm and so my players ended up feeling sorry for mutants. Yeah... spiler, but it's a 30 year old campaign

I'd love Warhammer to be just that, but I fear the ones who want this, are not a big enough crowd to profit from... So while I dislike seeing Sigmar priests clad in 200 pound armor, I accept it if it means more sold boxes, and thus more expansions. I'm willing to accept a LOT, if it means the franchise keeps making more stuff. Because every roleplayer picking up Warhammer, is someone you can potentially recruit and show the more "fun" version of the setting to.

I detested Storm of Chaos, but on the other hand, I couldn't care less, because I just used the rules (which I thought were good, I liked 1st/2nd and 3rd edition rules... in each their own way) and rolled back time to TEW period, where talks of beastmen in the woods makes people chuckle.

PS. Liber 7 is uploaded!!!!

Spivo said:

I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy for the industry to keep producing games with 80% combat focus and then claim there aren't enough customers for more adult-themed games. I know lots of people in my age group (mid 30's) who are interested by the "concept" of roleplaying but are turned off by the violent/childish imagery. WFRP v1 and v2 had snarly troll-slayers on the covers because they were actually marketed at children and young adults. Both BW and UA are quite successful RPGs, even without having a recognizable setting attached.

Herr Arnulfe said:

True... it can be hard to convince people, that the game "can" be about social relations, and investigations, when you have that Terminator armor clad priest on the cover. He does not look like the type you socialize with, nope not at all...

Herr Arnulfe said:

I own two copies of UA, but I would hardly call the game successful. At least commercially.

plutonick said:

Well it's been around since 1998 and is still in print, so I'd say that counts for something. Transplant the core concepts of UA into a more recognizable genre and it could easily produce a sustainable RPG line, IMO.

plutonick said:

Play-tester for WFRP 3.

I received a message about the silence. There's a reason, but it's not my business to say what it is. From what I heard, everything is good.

Herr Arnulfe said:

Heroic narrative revolves around conflict. How individual groups handle conflict in their games (childishly, violently, subtley, diplomaticaly etc.) depends on the players. But, troll-slayers should appeal to everyone, except your effete friends. Their quest for a redemption that can only come through their death in conflict with a hostile universe is an adult-theme. It asks questions about what the value of a life without honor is. What would we really be willing to sacrifice for redemeption? Would we be able to stay the course in that final moment of choice before death? I would rather not roll dice to have to make these decisions as a character or explore these stories. Deep roleplaying and strong narrative is dice free; consequently, I think the possibilites are there for this in every system around. WFRP 3rd promotes this kind of storytelling in and out of combat.

Bindlespin said:

Ironically, we do have an effete Barak-Varr Giant Slayer piloting the barge currently. He wears a cheap fuchsia cape that he picked up in Wurtbad (and nothing underneath). I don't think the player (who's a long-term WH fan) digs the deathwish thing as a roleplay premise these days - it's fairly one-dimensional after all. But originally I was referring to non-WH fans who would enjoy most parts of the WH setting if it wasn't marketed with gratuitous oversized weapons and adolescent machismo most of the time.

There's nothing wrong with adults liking Trollslayers, or playing games designed for children. I'm just saying I'd like to see a WFRP game designed for and marketed to adult WH fans, who maybe thought Trollslayers and Swordsmasters were cooler when they were 20 than they do nowadays.

i am not convinced you know what you want. and i don't think you would recognize it if someone handed it to you.

so start over, state clearly what you want first.

Bindlespin said:

I've stated it quite clearly, you're just having comprehension problems again.

Its probably irrelevant what we want, since we can only like what we get (or house rule).

jh