Greetings, brethern

I plan on running my both of my groups through a slightly modified version of Shades of Twilights (from PtU). Reading through it, one of the things I was not found of where the stats of the Grotesques. Given the stats from the books, I do not expect them to have much impact.

Before I re-arranged stats, I would like to ask the forum if there is anybody out there who can tell me what they are like in the new DE-Codex. I quitted the hobby a long while ago, but have two players who are "up to date". Those will mourn to no end if my versions will be to far from what is said in the actual codex.

Can anybody help me mout?

Gregorius21778 said:

Grotesques are much more akin to Ogryns in terms of size these days, and are stronger and tougher than Space Marines. Their bodies are masses of tortured and rebuilt flesh around protruding spikes of bone and implanted blades, toxin dispensers and in some cases, the deadly Liquifier guns (same rules as the old Destructor flamer that Haemonculi used).

WS BS S T Ag Int Per WP Fel
50 12 75 (14) 65 (12) 48 (4) 26 (2) 40 (4) 22 (2) 02 (0)

Movement: 5/10/15/30 Wounds: 35

Skills: Awareness (Per), Intimidate (S), Speak Language (Dark Eldar) (Int)

Talents: Berserk Charge, Crushing Blow, Frenzy, Furious Assault, Hardy, Iron Jaw, Jaded, True Grit

Traits: Fear (1), Improved Natural Weapons (blade-limbs and bone spikes), Natural Armour (2), Power From Pain , Size (Hulking), Sturdy, Toxic (1d10), Unnatural Strength (x2), Unnatural Toughness (X2)

Armour: Gnarlskin (All 2)

Weapons: Bladed limbs and bone spikes (1d10+16 R; Toxic). Some Grotesques may also have an implanted Liquifier Gun (30m; S/-/-; 1d10+4 E; Pen 1d10; Clip 3; Rld Special - causes 1d5 wounds as a Free Action to reload; Flame, Tearing, Toxic), in which case the creature will have Basic Weapon Training (Flame)

In their place as roughly man-sized monsters created by Haemonculi are now referred to as Wracks or Haemacolytes - rather than being shambling monsters, they're actually lab assistants and apprentice torturers to a Haemonculus. Their twisted and corrupted bodies are adorned with a variety of envenomed blades.

WS BS S T Ag Int Per WP Fel
45 44 41 (4) 36 (6) 48 (4) 37 (3) 40 (4) 42 (4) 28 (2)
Movement: 4/8/12/24 Wounds: 12
Skills: Awareness (Per) +10, Common Lore (Dark Eldar) (Int) +10, Intimidate (S), Medicae (Int), Speak Language (Dark Eldar) (Int), Trade (Haemacolyte) (Int) +10
Talents: Ambidextrous, Basic Weapon Training (Flame) Hardy, Iron Jaw, Jaded, Melee Weapon Training (Primitive), True Grit, Two-Weapon Wielder (Melee)
Traits: Natural Armour (2), Power From Pain , Unnatural Toughness (X2)
Armour: Gnarlskin (All 2)
Weapons: Assorted envenomed blades (1d10+4 R; Pen 2; Tearing, Toxic (1d10), counts as two weapons). Some Wracks may also have an implanted Liquifier Gun (30m; S/-/-; 1d10+4 E; Pen 1d10; Clip 3; Rld Special - causes 1d5 wounds as a Free Action to reload; Flame, Tearing, Toxic), in which case the creature will have Basic Weapon Training (Flame)

Beyond that, all Dark Eldar (every last one of them) should have the Power From Pain Trait (included on these two examples), which works as follows:

Power From Pain

Whenever any creature within 20m of a character with this Trait suffers more than 5 wounds in a single attack, dies, or fails a Fear or Pinning Test, the character regains 1d5 wounds. If the character is already at its normal maximum wounds, it instead gains one of the following benefits: enter a Frenzy as a Free Action, gain the Brutal Charge Trait, gain the Fearless Talent. Particularly vast outpourings of pain and suffering may, at the GM's discretion, grant further and more powerful advantages - a Dark Eldar suffused with the pain of many prey is a terrible thing to behold.

Now THAT is how Dark Eldar should be represented. Lethal and cruel, only one grotesque would be a serious threat to an entire cell of acolytes.

Hi No-one-here,

thanks for the details. I think I will use the "lesser Grotesques" then. But I will not use the "Power from Pain" trait. Regeneration is (in my opinion) a little bit to much. I don´t think that this will be a trait (rather) regular enemies will gain in a DH game.

So, these wracks are what the old Grotesques were like? Subjects of willful or enforced experiments which are part of the Haemonucli´s entourage? Does the "fluff text" mentions anything about hightend reflexes, immunity to pain, combat drug usage and similiar stuff?

Thanks again.

Gregorius21778 said:

It's a key and defining feature of the new Dark Eldar; they literally feed on the pain of those around them, and it does stimulate physical rejuvenation (powerful Dark Eldar are regrown and revived after death by being exposed to the torments that take place within Haemonculi torture chambers). "Dark Fairtytale" and "creepy flesh-crafting" are key themes of the Dark Eldar now.

Gregorius21778 said:

The old Dark Eldar background has very little information about anything. Combat drug use is more common amongst Wyches, and heightened reflexes (compared to humans) are a feature of all Eldar (who typically come with Unnatural Agility - Grotesques and Wracks aren't as quick as normal Eldar, but are much tougher), but immunity to pain tends to come naturally to all the creations of Haemonculi (and any Dark Eldar that imbibe enough pain, but Wracks, Grotesques and Haemonculi - who self-experiment a lot - tend to already be inured to pain anyway).

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Hi No-one-here,

I got that. But I doubt that this would translate into Regeneration in DH. At least, not for the "rank & file". It seems to powerful an effect.

Gregorius21778 said:

Well, it translates to Feel No Pain in the wargame (indeed, Feel No Pain is the first rule the wargame's version of Power From Pain gives, and the background frequently describes things as regenerating).

One thing to note is that the 'rank and file' of Dark Eldar armies are the elite of Dark Eldar society - the strongest, fastest, most deadly of their kind, as only such an elite would be permitted a place in the raiding parties that leave Commorragh.

Anyway, that's my reasoning for the rule I presented. Obviously, you're free to use it however you want, but quite frankly, I'm of the opinion that pretty much any adversary in the 40k universe should be terrifying on some level. Dark Eldar that get stronger with every injury or mental trauma they inflict... that's terrifying.

Very nasty.

Good work No1. I wonder if you'd share your stats for a 'basic Dark Eldar raider'?

I like the fact you're not afraid of making foes LETHAL, and feel the raiders in the Twilight adventure were under-statted, so would like to see your take on them - especially given your view they represent the best of DE society.

No One Here: While I mostly agree with your points on the fluff and regenerative properties of other's pain, I think the system as it is presented is, to put it mildly, a bit nuts. how many would they really need to mow down to get every single listed trait available? How long does it take them to do that in Tabletop?

I feel a tweak to the system could keep them terrifying, but make them somewhat managable as foes (since, as is, both their own strikes and even the strikes of others on themselves HEALS THEM, almost requiring that they be entirely killed in a single round or don't bother). Maybe they only regain 1 wound for each instance you mentioned, perhaps that should only account for the wounds of enemies, and I could see it reasonable to require 3 or 5 such wounds on unwounded eldar before they gain the next tier's benefit, and so on.

Seriously no-one-here FFG should just have you write up a one page creature/package/career/item/world of the week plug in a GW official picture, use the proper fonts and layout (to look like the books) and upload it on the website.

It's almost immpossible to translate it over from the wargame.

We don't know how long turns are, and it's implied that different phases take different amounts of time.

Tabletop wise a unit gains a "pain token" when they destroy another unit. This could be anything from a tactical squad to a lone grot.

I think DE should be lethal. After all, a DE fighting a human would be like a fully trained warrior fighting a small child. They have centuries of combat experience and more advanced gear than tech priest can dream of. Add to that millenia of evolution and adaptation to pain and "soul-sucking" and you have a very unbalanced foe.

Exactly the way it is supposed to be IMO

Adam France said:

It's not purely my view - the new codex, and accomplanying promotional material (there's five videos on YouTube of Phil Kelly and Jes Goodwin talking about the Dark Eldar, going into detail about the ideas they worked with, the new background and so on) pretty much states it outright.

I've got a few drafts of various basic Dark Eldar, but they're not tweaked to my satisfaction yet. The Grotesque and Wrack I postedare very rough-and-ready spur of the moment creations. All the points made so far about the Power From Pain rule are things I've considered time and again (making it enemies only kind of gets in the way of the self-serving, sensation-obsessed feel of things, IMO), and it's not an easy rule to translate across properly - that's possibly my fourth or fifth attempt so far.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Yeah, but if they did that, I wouldn't be working on the big stuff. As much as I enjoy putting together little bits and pieces like this, there's still nothing quite like the idea-bouncing of a big collaborative project.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Hmm.. the part I putted into italic (is that engl. for the german kursiv ? italic? ) brought me an idea. I think I will give them Frenzy, Battlerage and Iron Jaw. Triggered as soon as somebody is heavily wounded, metal traumatized or otherwise a victim to pain and horror. Thanks for the inspiration and the information provided!