Alright, I know that this Chapter is part of the Chaos side of things. I get that so do not flame me for it.

Anyway, I think this chapter is just to cool and has great fluff not to house rule for Deathwatch. I know I would have to call them something different and change their history etc.

Any thoughts on Chapter rules for them? All the help would be much appreciated.

So here is what I was thinking;

Bodiless Soldier: Increased Trait (2x Toughness)

Augumented Bolter: The bolter in the hands of these soldiers become charged with psychic energy and become even more devastating. They gain the increased ranged and AP of a Kraken round as well as Felling (2).

Crack Shot: +10 to BS

???: +5% to ?

well if you wanted to make the most powerful character ever concieved right out of the box you have succeeded admirably sir.

what happens when this monster gets a storm bolter? well I mean aside from the obvious?

Hadriel said:

I have to agree this seems a bit more powerful then a Rubric Marine probably ought to be; but it gives a nice baseline for opening a discussion of the idea.

Hadriel said:

They probably wouldn't use it. The Rite of Ahriman really alleviated the vast majority of The Thousand Sons of their free will. That, and I believe their gear somehow became intrinsically tied to what remained of their spirits. Besides which, even the other traitors tend to not have access to storm bolters, even those more recently turned to Chaos.

But, that's just my read on things.

-=Brother Praetus=-

So, how would you fix them so they are not so overpowered? I was just taking a quick stab at things. Here is a better thought on their weapons...

Bodiless Soldier: As their body was desigatrated by the rite, their soul was infused into their armor, enhancing it. Use the stats for Master Artificer Armor.

Augumented Bolter: The bolter in the hands of these soldiers become charged with psychic energy and become even more devastating. Every bolt fired from their bolters act as Hellfire Bolts with AP 8.

Crack Shot: +10 to BS

???: +5% to ?

How is that?

If you want to emulate the thousand sons havoc rounds in game terms then give a thousand son marine a starting psy rating of 1 and put the havoc special ability in the chapter specific advancement scheme for a fairly high cost. something like *gives all bolt rounds the warp quality (bypasses normal armour)* for 2500 xp The same could be said about their empty body armour... just think of a reasonable quality to apply and add an appropriate xp cost (something like reducing penetration by 2 for 800xp).

Its also more reasonable to give bonuses by way of signature upgrades to improve their armour over time. A chapter should never come with master crafted artificer armour, thats something that a handful of Space Marines in a chapter would be able to Procure.... most of that stuff would be in the hands of first company champions, chapter masters and chief librarians. No one else would be afforded the honour.

Hadriel said:

Just a quick quote from the description; " Artificer armour is always Master-Crafted. " Such suits are a special deviation from the standard craftsmanship rules.

But I agree, Rubrics would probably not be in such fine armor. Sorcerers , on the other hand. But then we're barking up a different kind of tree all together.

Now, here are a few ideas.

• Instead of true Artificer armor, use the standard craftsmanship rules for armor and maybe give them master-crafted PA; +1 AP to all locations as opposed to 12's across the board.
• Their boltguns, being older patterns, might have a slightly better range; say 120m maybe, and because they are fueled in part by the warp/soul of the marine give them a clip size of n/a .

I don't know though. Those are off the cusp and not really given much thought to.

-=Brother Praetus=-

So, now I have my book in front of me and I can hammer this out a little better as well as taking in your suggestions. I hope this is more balances and playable.

Chapter Enhancements: They gain +1 Psy rating and +10% to BS

Chapter Ability:

Required Rank: 1

Rubic Armor (Thousand Sons): The battle brothers of the Thousand Sons are known for being unstoppable taking obscene levels of incoming fire. Once per combat, a battle brother can reinforce their armor with pure psychic energy. While under this power, the AP of any weapon used against them is reduced by 2.

Advancement: At rank 3 or above the AP reduction increases to +4, at Rank 5 or above the AP reduction increases to +6, and at Rank 7 abd above the AP reduction increases to +8.

De m eanor:

Lost Will: Lost Will is a demeanor unique to the Thousand Sons. It comes for the side affects of the Rubic of Ahriman, when the rite destroyed their bodies and also broke their wills. When this demeanor is triggered, the Thousand Sons lose all ability to to function on their own and can only be lead by a powerful Psycher (of rating 3 or higher). They suffer from a penalty of -20 to WP when they are triggered.

Starting Equipment: The battle brothers of the Thousand Sons can choose to replace their standard Chain Sword with a Force Sword.

Chapter Advancements:

Forbidden Lore (Warp) +10 200xp [skill]

Forbidden Lore (Warp) +20 200xp [skill]

Psyniscience +10 200xp [skill]

Psyniscience +20 200xp [skill]

Crack Shot 400xp [Talent]

Favoured by the Warp 400xp [Talent]

Hatred (Space Wolves) 500xp [Talent]

Marksman 200xp [Talent]

Signature Wargear 600xp [Talent]

Signature Wargear (Master) 800xp [Talent]

Autosanguine 700xp [Talent]

Signature Wargear (Hero) 1,000xp [Talent]

Enemy (Space Wolves) 500xp [Talent]

Jades 200xp [Talent]

Havoc Bolts 2,500xp [Talent]

New Talents:

Havoc Bolts: The battle brother of the Thousand Sons can permanently infuse any bolter they wield with the power of the Warp. Their bolters they wield permanently gain the Warp and Toxic quality.

.

Shenron said:

That is alot more like it. I would have to check out the cost of signature wargear advances so that it remained relatively equivalent to perhaps 1.5 times the cost of the ranked advances. I would also make a note somewhere to indicate that these advances can only be applied to armour.

I think +10% to balistic skill is too high, 5% is enough for chapter enhancements. 1 point to psy rating is a neat little option which allows for powerful psyckers and interesting elite advancement options for other marine types.

Armour penetration reduction is definitely the best option as apposed to raw armour due to the fact that it will be amazing at offering extra survivability without making the player impervious to copious amounts of incoming damage.

Chapter Enhancements: They gain +1 Psy rating and +5% to BS, +5% to T

Chapter Ability:

Required Rank: 1

Rubic Armor (Thousand Sons): The battle brothers of the Thousand Sons are known for being unstoppable taking obscene levels of incoming fire. Once per combat, a battle brother can reinforce their armor with pure psychic energy. While under this power, the AP of any weapon used against them is reduced by 2.

Advancement: At rank 3 or above the AP reduction increases to +4, at Rank 5 or above the AP reduction increases to +6, and at Rank 7 abd above the AP reduction increases to +8.

Demeanor:

Lost Will: Lost Will is a demeanor unique to the Thousand Sons. It comes for the side affects of the Rubic of Ahriman, when the rite destroyed their bodies and also broke their wills. When this demeanor is triggered, the Thousand Sons lose all ability to to function on their own and can only be lead by a powerful Psycher (of rating 3 or higher). They suffer from a penalty of -20 to WP when they are triggered.

Starting Equipment: The battle brothers of the Thousand Sons can choose to replace their standard Chain Sword with a Force Sword.

Chapter Advancements:

Forbidden Lore (Warp) +10 200xp [skill]

Forbidden Lore (Warp) +20 200xp [skill]

Psyniscience +10 200xp [skill]

Psyniscience +20 200xp [skill]

Crack Shot 400xp [Talent]

Favoured by the Warp 400xp [Talent]

Hatred (Space Wolves) 500xp [Talent]

Marksman 200xp [Talent]

Signature Wargear 600xp [Talent]

Signature Wargear (Master) 800xp [Talent]

Autosanguine 700xp [Talent]

Signature Wargear (Hero) 1,000xp [Talent]

Enemy (Space Wolves) 500xp [Talent]

Jades 200xp [Talent]

Havoc Bolts 2,500xp [Talent]

New Talents:

Havoc Bolts: The battle brother of the Thousand Sons can permanently infuse any bolter they wield with the power of the Warp. Their bolters they wield permanently gain the Warp and Toxic quality.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I changed some things per your ideas. Oh, let me know on that info for the XP.

I almost forgot, do you have any ideas for Thousand Son Relics and Trappings?

Are you considering using them as a playable PC? If so, it'd need to be as a stand-alone, as I don't think an empty suit would qualify for Deathwatch, even under the rather generous Black Shield 'rules'.

Im actually working on something very similar for a spin off game, and i was working it more torwards being a pysker and with a high enough psy rating you can get a rubric marine as a familiar and then buff it up and such, to play more with the idea of controling them

The most direct translation for their specials would be the Deamonic trait and their bolters act as if they fired Vengence shells that don't overheat. Ouch, but they should have a pretty unplayable downside though and it's not like they are going to be in games with standard DW players.

I hate to "Necro" this thread but I could just make them human and call change the story around, I think it will still be viable in a mixed group of DW players that way.

What you think?

While you'd still have to consider various play ballance issues with all the players and GM. Perhaps not making the Thousand Sons, per se, but a successor chapter formed with their Gene Seed. This could allow you to create a very psycher heavy chapter, without too much Daemon influence (you are working with the Inquisition, after all).

Of course, if you're planning on playing a spin off game, where players are playing the Chaos equivilent of Deathwatch... toss my suggestion right out the window.

I've not had a chance to get my hands on the Rite of Battle suppliment yet, but for ballancing issues, it may be a bit unfair to offer up some of the Signature Wargear options so early and so cheap. Also, Favored of the Warp, at starting AND at half cost seems really over powered. Both the Librarians in my game would kill for that.

A couple things,

Not all of them are Psykers, thats the key thing with the rite, those who were not psykers became the thoughtless suits of armor. While those who were psykers instead received greatly increased power. THe Run of a mill Thousand son is little more then an moving peice of armor that one would be hard pressed to call an intelligent thing.

So if you were to play a Pysker then the issue of being nothing more of a suit of armor no longer applies.

Great idea, but three or four things.

For those affected by the Rubric, they should get unnatural toughness 3, and be almost immortal (50, 60 wounds)

For those who were were psykers, have them roll a d10 and add three for their psychic power rating, as the Rubric made them nigh unstoppable.

Squad mode abilities could involve some kind of sorcery, perhaps with a demon involved(still thinking over this).

And finally, they need to have some overpowered Warp based powers to start with, unless they are deserters, in which case forget those and be happy with the RP possibilities.