Ok so I'm starting up a new campaign and I'm trying to get all the rules I wanted sorted out. The PCs are going to be at about 4500 xp. I'm attempting to play them through the Purge the unclean series.

Some of my players want some gear and what not. One of them wants a power blade. Now he has lightning attack and has a monoblade in his off hand. He has all the necessary talents for that. Now if he was to get a power blade and lightning attack that just seems ridiculous. Am I wrong?

One of my other players wants light power armour. In the book it talks about a power pack to keep it charged. Are there any stats on those? (eg cost, availability, so on) It also talks about power weapons being either active or not. Do they also require power packs of a sort?

Just trying to balance things for my players and sometimes things seem much more OP or UP than they actually are.

Thanks for the help!

JAK

Power Armour and power weapons both have built in power supplies. Power Armour will need recharging, power weapons don't.

However, using the RAW, they are going to be hard pressed to afford that. Page 29 advises that for every 400xp they start with (above the starting 400xp), they earn an extra months wage. I take this as them earning 1 month at the rate for their rank at 800xp, then another at 1200, etc

For classes other than the scum, each rank adds 10% of the base wage (rank 1 at 1x the base, rank 2 at 1.1, etc). This means that if you start them at 4'500xp, their starting thrones will be the starting wealth (pg 29) + 13 times their base income rate. If you force them to spend the starting money to get gear, even if you ignore rarity, only tech-priests, clerics and nobles can afford power weapons (unless they pick bad quality ones). And to afford it, the non-nobles will have to skimp on other important things like armour.

As for Power Armour, only a noble could afford it. And then, only poor quality Light Power Armour.

Be sure to point out that, with power weapons being energy weapons, bad things could happen if they kill someone with it they risk exploding their targets ammo or risking him setting them on fire. Neither are good when you are in melee range.

More importantly, the guy in power armour or wielding a power sword is likely to be seen as the greatest threat. So he will be shot first.

Power weapons are generally implied to never run out of energy, whatever supplies them is more than sufficent to keep them going forever. The GM can naturally modify this however you see fit though, so if you want to treat it as a thematic thing than by all means go ahead Generally power weapons use hidden power supplies (like mentioned in book, it will be concealed in hilt or what not), but big power weapons like Power Fists are generally mentioned to use back-pack power supplies. GM fiat still lets you modify this up and down, if someones getting a poor quality power weapon maybe give them a bulky power supply - if its best quality its not only perfectly balanced but its nature and power supply perfectly disguised.

As for Power Armor, its never listed how rare or difficult it is to find a power supply.. So your going to have to treat it however you wish - however keep in mind that the 1d5 hours for a civilian unit tends to refer to active combat (or any sort of active role thats going to be taxing).. At least that is how most people treat it. You really don't have to, and can use it as a hard limit instead. Since its a "civilian" model it shouldn't be that hard to find a power supply, and being Inquisition, they could probably find a Military model power supply (Ascension mentions one, which runs for 1d5 days). However, yeah, its all GM fiat on how they want to control the Acquisition and use of this stuff.

....However, I would be kind of reluctant to give people this much stuff personally. This is fairly cream of the crop loot. I haven't run the Campaign myself, but if there is any social-fu or investigation, power armor will stand out *fast*, and this kind of equipment could end up being potentially unbalancing. Anyways as for the ps/mb lightning attack damage, keep in mind that dual wielding melee weapons always leaves a -10 penalty, even with Ambidextrous and Two-Weapon Wielder: Melee. That -10 penalty cannot be made up for until Ascension when characters can get the talent Storm of Blows. As for power? Yeah, Lightning Attack is bloody strong - if he gets close to something he's going to be making 4 melee attacks (3 with Power Sword, 1 with Mono-Sword).. But the trade off is that "If he gets close". You can deal out a lot of damage up close, but your open to taking a hell of a lot of it yourself... So its a risk to him either way. *Shrug*

If you play Purge the Unclean keep in mind that it is metioned at the beginning of the adventure that Power Armour is not allowed for civilians in Hive Sibellus. Apart from that, as mentioned, people in such armour stick out like a sore thumb.

Furthermore, if you have characters with Lightning Attack, Power Weapons and maybe even Power Armour, you should scale up the difficulty of any encounters in Purge the Unclean a lot. Otherwiose they won't be a challenge at all...

- SPOILER -

For Rejoice you are True I would give Theodosia rules like those from cybernetic resurrection in IH (and/or the Machine (5) trait), Swift Attack (next to Two-Weapon Wielder), maybe two Power Swords instead of Power Blades as well as two Hecuter with man-stopper rounds. Increase the amount of Serrated Query Operatives at the end as well.

The operatives attacking House Strophes should also get at least Minerva-Aegis Las Carbines (maybe overcharged), Frag grenades or even Hellguns and Light Carapace Armour.

For Shades of Twilight I would give all Dark Eldar the Dodge skill, a few Plasma Grenades and all their weapons at least the Toxic trait (if not +1 damage, Tearing and Storm). Maybe add one or two Mandrakes and/or Wyches as well as a Raider armed with a Heavy Splinter Cannon. Arkivras should get some kind of vile (and probably Toxic) close combat weapon as well; check the Rogue Trader supplement Into the Storm if at hand for an Agonizer or however it is called.

For Baron Hopes I would increase the numbers of the mutants and give the psyker witch an Eviscerator (as on her picture) as well as more violent pyromancy powers. The zombies could be increased in numbers or given rules as shown in DotDG. At least check the rules for grappling, giving support to grapplers and how to damage a grappled opponent...

jak102789 said:

4500 XP sounds far too overpowered, to me, for Purge the Unclean.

Well I'm still fairly new to this, so I realize I've definitely made some mistakes. (such as too high levels) So I've been trying to rebalance things for them. There are 5 players. And actually they still seem to have issues some times. Healing seems to be a really large issue. Which actually leads me to a question for the Twlight portion. I assume they will take a fair amount of wounds in combat, but according to the rules it takes forever to heal them, but they only have 15 hours or so to complete it.

I guess you're right in terms of them getting stuff. Should they not expect help from the inquistion itself then? (I'm used to playing D&D so trying to adjust to this system of things) What sort of weaponry should they be expecting at this level or point in the campaign?

I know this world is supposed to be very harsh and unforgiving, but healing seems really difficult. My PCs seem to take a decent amount of damage every fight. However the only way to heal is to use fate points for 1d5? They also have a psyker with heal, but even that only does so much. Is there something that we are missing?

Healing is clearly the main issue for players in that system.

The best way to handle this, IMO, is to have at least one character with a high score in Intelligence and the Medicae Skill.

Techpriest or Adept are quite good for this.

Avoiding fights (by sneaking and/or clever planning) as much as possible is also a very good idea.

Is there an alternate healing system that works pretty well?

They can also heal 1d5 wound by spending a fate point.

One of the big things that would help would be knowing what sort of "gear" they should be expecting at their level and point in the campaign. How much experience should they be at roughly? If I have an idea of what sort of weapons and armour they should be at then I can have a better idea of how they should be. Otherwise I don't know exactly where they should be and I don't know what's really "balanced".

Thank you all for the advice!

JAK

jak102789 said:

Cost is a major balancing factor in DH. If something is really powerful, but the acolytes can't afford to buy it, or they can afford it but not the ammo they expend, it isn't going to be useful for them.

The easiest method is to give them a starting amount of thrones and have them decide what they want to spend it on. If you want to balance the missions to their equipment, have them give you the list of the equipment they are planning to purchase, then balance the encounter to that.

If you make them spend thrones on their gear, with the amount being based on their class income and the one month pay per 400xp guideline, I'd expect their ranged weapons to be using Las or SP, maybe a bolter for the richer classes and a few grenades. Melee will be primitive weapons with mono, maybe a chain weapon. Armour will be flak/mesh, maybe carapace.

Well I'm still fairly new to this, so I realize I've definitely made some mistakes. (such as too high levels) So I've been trying to rebalance things for them. There are 5 players. And actually they still seem to have issues some times. Healing seems to be a really large issue. Which actually leads me to a question for the Twlight portion. I assume they will take a fair amount of wounds in combat, but according to the rules it takes forever to heal them, but they only have 15 hours or so to complete it.

I guess you're right in terms of them getting stuff. Should they not expect help from the inquistion itself then? (I'm used to playing D&D so trying to adjust to this system of things) What sort of weaponry should they be expecting at this level or point in the campaign?

I know this world is supposed to be very harsh and unforgiving, but healing seems really difficult. My PCs seem to take a decent amount of damage every fight. However the only way to heal is to use fate points for 1d5? They also have a psyker with heal, but even that only does so much. Is there something that we are missing?

What classes are the characters (if you are aware)? But yeah, healing times are generally meant to be an issue. The only "fast healing" is via psykers, which .. Have their own problems associated with them (Healer invades the flesh and used too often causes it to rebel, Seal Wounds is incredibly powerful but naturally has the normal risks of pheno.etc associated with it). Medicae is very useful, and with a good Int character can be rather powerful, but it does have its down sides as well - you only get to use it once per combat encounter that the characters go through.

Keep in mind its pretty expected to lose characters on some of this stuff. They aren't the big heroes of the setting like they may be in D&D, here they just happen to be disposable assets to an Inquisitor - so the help that they are receiving from the Inquisition is going to be reflective of that. By memory of the Twilight portion, that's actually part of the idea; the acolytes may not be the best people for the job at all, but they happen to be close enough to react, and disposable enough that no-one really will care if something goes wrong. So the amount of an investment the Inquisition will put into the acolytes is going to be minor; but its really up to you. Personally I tend to say they would have access to basic equipment that would be aboard the ship (ie: they can get for example boarding armor), or access to some of the ships armory. Context wise it makes sense, and you could still charge them for it or only issue it for a limited time (ie: the adventure).

As for them taking a decent amount of damage every fight, I'd look at why that is. Taking damage is somewhat expected, but if they are taking damage because they aren't playing smart well.. Thats on them. In DH cover is god. If the players want to start their first round with a full auto salvo instead of moving to cover, its up to them.. But there is consequences if they don't empty the room of whoever they are facing first. Don't give them a free out if they decide to go Rambo.

I guess one of the problems I have is that I don't really know exactly what all they would have access to on the ship for instance. Any thoughts? But fair point about the Inquisition. That does put it in more perspective I suppose.

I suppose one of my other issues is that I don't really have any maps to work off of so I have never really gotten a feel for how a "battlefield" is supposed to look. Like how much cover there should be. How much space there really should be and such. I find it a bit difficult when one of my characters has sprint and can run like 40m or so easily. How exactly do you guys do maps for fights? Do you use 1m squares?

jak102789 said:

Inquisitors Handbook has a listing of weapons/armor/items.etc.etc commonly found on ships (as well as Hive worlds, forge worlds, fringe worlds, feral/feudral worlds.etc.etc, its pretty awesome in that way). If you don't have access to it you can make up for whatever you would feel would be fit; if its a military focused vessel (ie: Imperial Guard ship or what not), give the ship "armory" a bunch of flak and lasguns or what not. However, either way make sure the ship has void-suits so that they can actually go out in the void, its rather useful to have, though I don't believe required for the module.

As for battlefield layout, whatever works best for you. I've only played online so I cant really chip in for tabletop wise, online its just GM described distances or using a battlefield layout with 1m squares. I believe that the written modules come with maps to use for the areas you are expected to get into combat for, no? I would refer to those for examples, but when it comes to standard battlefield.. Its up to you. Just keep in mind pretty much everything in 40k, including the flagships of fleets or the most prized of vessels, is generally going to be incredibly old (something "new" might be centuries old, while many vessels have seen millenia of service being constantly repaired and re-used for a variety of roles). Thus everything is generally going to be very ornate, very intricate, and on a huge scale. You may find stark and utiliarian hallways, but your more likely to find messes of cables, pipes, twisting and turning corridors.etc.etc. I would say try to avoid the Gears of War scenario where In The Future, the world has been invaded with chest high walls... But usually there is lots of embellishments and what not. If there isn't, the acolytes probably should withdraw to somewhere where they *will* have cover.

Sprints a fantastic talent and will get them across the battlefield, and I assume that its likely on the guy with the swords.. Just make sure that you are familiar with the combat rules. Sprint gives him a -20BS to be hit, and a +20WS to be hit. So he can sprint across the entire battlefield to get into the teeth of someone, but he could end up far ahead of his group and alone in enemy territory. This is bad when one of the other guys charges out and attacks (+10WS for charge, +20 with Berserk Charge, and than the +20WS means the enemy has at least +30/40WS to hit), and now that they are in melee the acolytes friends have to take a -20BS test to hit the guy beating on *their* friend. *Shrug* Never mind things like if he decides to Sprint into Point Blank range of someone who has a Shotgun or Automatic weapon (or worse, an automatic shotgun).

So yeah, the acolyte might be able to clear the entire battlefield in a sprint or two, but doesn't mean its a smart idea to do that

May be you shoulf allow them to find a doctor w/ Int ~40 and good equipment w/ good bonuses for medicae test. Using First Aid they can instantly restore at least part of their health. And rhose who are lightly wounded can restore half of the usual day amount of wounds( int bonus of Medicae's user) after 12 hours. Price, i think, ~50 thrones/person

Sorry for my english.

Bilateralrope said:

You seem to be forgetting the #1 method of aquisition: Looting. Unless you specifically metagame away all chances of looting chances are even the Scum will get hold of some tough weaponry after awhile. Just playing the PtU or Haarlock Legacy will give the players the chance to get bolt weapons, power blades and/or swords, force weapons, plasma.. muskets... etc. etc. Their income will mostly go to flesh out their own equipment, particularily armor (the NPCs from these adventures tend to be woefully underequipped with armor).

My acolytes albeit at rank 8, have pretty much anything they want in stuff barring the best plasma guns, power armor or heavy weapons, and these mostly because of their lack of subtlety rather than lack of funds. Very Rare= anyone can get it with a challenging Inquire test.

Healing: In my game we have a Biomancer. They are unsuprisingly invaluable, especially between encounters where they go from almost dead to fully healed instantly. The Psyker easily heals 15 wounds, and can do so to several party members in one manifestation, often without using all his dice (just 2 or 3 tend to be enough).

While offensively there are other psyker disciplines that can be more damaging, I don't think any are as useful to a group of acolytes walking from one combat encounter to the next.

You seem to be forgetting the #1 method of aquisition: Looting. Unless you specifically metagame away all chances of looting chances are even the Scum will get hold of some tough weaponry after awhile.

True, looting is going to give them access to better gear. Though if the players do acquire a better gun, they will then have to worry about paying for the ammo.

Just playing the PtU or Haarlock Legacy will give the players the chance to get bolt weapons, power blades and/or swords, force weapons, plasma.. muskets... etc. etc. Their income will mostly go to flesh out their own equipment, particularily armor (the NPCs from these adventures tend to be woefully underequipped with armor).

The Haarlock Legacy missions did have a lot of gear to loot, especially the large amounts of thrones that could be looted from The House of Dust and Ash. But I don't remember much in the way of valuable loot from PtU, the only item I remember is a BQ Bolt pistol that an NPC had in Rejoice. But at 16 thrones per shot, the cost for using it will stack up very quickly.

Bilateralrope said:

Yup, and one of the reasons it is good to run Tattered Fates directly afterwards. Your players will hate you for that I can tell you...

Another thing your players might consider, if they can't get healing, is drugs. They could invest in Stimm to keep them going when they normally would be heavily penalized or brought down by damage. Its only a temporary fix for sure, but it could be used as an extra way to keep going during those battles that look bleak.

The setting is definitely harsh, so as a GM don't be afraid to make it tough for them. I would only let them have what they would have earned at 1 month per 400xp. The better rewards should be gotten "in-game" so they have some blood, sweat, and tears put into them.

Thank you all. I really appreciate all the advice you have given me. It really makes a lot of things much more clear.

I guess one of the questions I do still have is what sort of things should they have for their level? (There is an assassin, psyker, scum, techpriest, and sister of battle for instance in my game)

Also what sort of experience level should they be at for the Twlight mission? Also how much experience do you typically give out per session? I feel like I'm giving them way too much experience after looking at what you all have said. I do understand that I started them off way too high, so I'm not sure if that is the cause or if I am just giving too much experience. The books (as for as I can tell) don't seem to give much indication as to how much experience they should expect to gain by the end of the mission itself.

Thanks guys!

JAK

All XP earnings are defined at the end of each scenario, in the book.

As Purge the Unclean is designed to be played after the core rulebook's scenario, PC should be at least Rank 2 begining Rejoyce...

If I remember correctly, they earn around 600 XP more in that scenario.

Then they are expected to play Twilight...

As a GM you can always manipulate PCs into doing what you want.

I played a melee strong char with lightning attack for some time. And while I DID have a powersword I often used the good quality chainsword instead because a missed attack deals even less damage than one done with the inferior-damage weapon. And with the -10 for dual wielding in melee (with talents) the bonus to hit for weapon quality can be relevant.

More so if the PC wants to use attacks that incur a negative modifier to hit, like counter attack.

The same goes for armor.
If your PCs want stormtrooper carapace bait them with best quality flak armor and show them that armor weight matters. (If it does with their Str + T values)

Last but not least: Give at least one of yout PCs an explosive weapon and blame it on him/her that some of the rare equipment is destroyed when the target of the attack is brutally torn apart.
If you describe it right the PCs may know that you just didn't want them to have the stuff but think it's cool 'cause it fit in.
I had this a couple of times when my guardsman finished enemies in powerarmor using his launcher with krack grenades.

The thing is: If someone in PA is tearing apart your team you WILL use the the krack grenade even if you can guess that it will destroy the PA.

jak102789 said:

It's largely a horror game. Some of them should expect to be dead,

Friend of the Dork said:

Blech... I should have known not to try and quote people