Technology Specialties & Technology II

By Zulkin, in Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

Posted at

Hi all, I've played a couple of games and my group is now ready to try out the Shattered Empires strategy cards. However, how exactly the technology II SC interacts with technology specialties is somewhat unclear to me, and I have been unable to find an answer anywhere. (Oh Google, how rarely you fail me...)

My question is a three-parter, although the three are very closely related.

1. Do technology specialties reduce the cost of a technology purchased with the last part of the primary ability of Tech II? I ask because the original rules for technology specialties specifically states that the cost is reduced when activating the SECONDARY ability of the technology SC. However, of course it would refer to the secondary ability specifically because for the original Tech SC, the secondary was the only way of purchasing a technology.

2. If the answer to 1 is "yes", then can this technology bonus be applied to both the secondary cost and primary cost in the case of the Jol Nar? For example, if the Jol Nar had four planets with blue technology specialties, they would get a free technology, and be able to purchase another technology for 2 (as long as it was blue.) If they do not exhaust the planets with the specialties to pay for this second technology, then could a third technology be purchased for 4 as long as it's blue? If the answer to question 1 is yes then I can't find any rules against it, it just seems... well, extremely powerful. And yes, this may seem like a rare situation, but it can be made all the more likely if, for instance, the Research Grant law is in play.

3. If the answer to the above two questions is "yes", then do both technology purchases happen simultaneously? This would mean that the player actually COULD exhaust the planets with the technology specialties on them to pay for the 6-base-cost technology, and still get the reduced cost when purchasing the other technology, right? The elaboration about the Technology II card in the back of the Shattered Empires rulebook seems to suggest the two purchases happen simultaneously, but I can't be sure. And once again, in that case, the purchase seems way too easy, so I feel the need to check.

Thanks in advance for any assistance. Cheers!

Posted at

Zulkin said:

1. Do technology specialties reduce the cost of a technology purchased with the last part of the primary ability of Tech II? I ask because the original rules for technology specialties specifically states that the cost is reduced when activating the SECONDARY ability of the technology SC. However, of course it would refer to the secondary ability specifically because for the original Tech SC, the secondary was the only way of purchasing a technology.

In our group we've always played it that you may use tech specs to discount the second tech in the primary ability. You may have a valid point about the secondary bit, rules-wise, but I don't think our group would change even if that's proven correct by more experienced players. For what it's worth, they way we play hasn't been noticeably unbalancing, if you wanted to follow suit anyhow.

Zulkin said:

2. If the answer to 1 is "yes", then can this technology bonus be applied to both the secondary cost and primary cost in the case of the Jol Nar? For example, if the Jol Nar had four planets with blue technology specialties, they would get a free technology, and be able to purchase another technology for 2 (as long as it was blue.) If they do not exhaust the planets with the specialties to pay for this second technology, then could a third technology be purchased for 4 as long as it's blue? If the answer to question 1 is yes then I can't find any rules against it, it just seems... well, extremely powerful. And yes, this may seem like a rare situation, but it can be made all the more likely if, for instance, the Research Grant law is in play.

I'd say this is legal. Powerful, yes, also legal. It's also worth noting that unless there are an inordinate number of objectives related to techs, buying so many is not always as great as it sounds. Sure tech is shiny and it helps you in some cool and interesting ways, but it won't win the game if it's not earning you VPs.

Zulkin said:

3. If the answer to the above two questions is "yes", then do both technology purchases happen simultaneously? This would mean that the player actually COULD exhaust the planets with the technology specialties on them to pay for the 6-base-cost technology, and still get the reduced cost when purchasing the other technology, right? The elaboration about the Technology II card in the back of the Shattered Empires rulebook seems to suggest the two purchases happen simultaneously, but I can't be sure. And once again, in that case, the purchase seems way too easy, so I feel the need to check.

The way we play, the primary is resolved first, then the secondary. Normally it makes no difference since the player who gets the primary cannot get the secondary, but in the case of Jol Nar, this means that if he exhausts any tech specs buying the second primary tech, he can't use them for the secondary tech.

Posted at

Zulkin said:

1. Do technology specialties reduce the cost of a technology purchased with the last part of the primary ability of Tech II? I ask because the original rules for technology specialties specifically states that the cost is reduced when activating the SECONDARY ability of the technology SC. However, of course it would refer to the secondary ability specifically because for the original Tech SC, the secondary was the only way of purchasing a technology.

Yes, any time you would "purchase" a tech, tech specialties would give you a discount. Thus, if you use the primary of Tech II, you get one for free, and one for 8, but the latter one can be discounted.

Zulkin said:

2. If the answer to 1 is "yes", then can this technology bonus be applied to both the secondary cost and primary cost in the case of the Jol Nar? For example, if the Jol Nar had four planets with blue technology specialties, they would get a free technology, and be able to purchase another technology for 2 (as long as it was blue.) If they do not exhaust the planets with the specialties to pay for this second technology, then could a third technology be purchased for 4 as long as it's blue? If the answer to question 1 is yes then I can't find any rules against it, it just seems... well, extremely powerful. And yes, this may seem like a rare situation, but it can be made all the more likely if, for instance, the Research Grant law is in play.

Yes. See below.

Zulkin said:

3. If the answer to the above two questions is "yes", then do both technology purchases happen simultaneously? This would mean that the player actually COULD exhaust the planets with the technology specialties on them to pay for the 6-base-cost technology, and still get the reduced cost when purchasing the other technology, right? The elaboration about the Technology II card in the back of the Shattered Empires rulebook seems to suggest the two purchases happen simultaneously, but I can't be sure. And once again, in that case, the purchase seems way too easy, so I feel the need to check.

The techs are acquired/purchased one at a time. Thus, when Jol-Nar spends resources to acquire the first tech, if this exhausts some Tech speciality planets, it could impact the cost/discount of the second tech.

For instance, let's say Jol-Nar has 3 unexhausted Blue Tech planets (we'll ignore the Scientists for now). They get a free Tech of something. Then they want Light/Wave Deflector, so they spend 3 resources; but in doing so, they exhaust one of the blue planets. They also want Maneuvering Jets. However, since they now only have 2 unexhausted blue planets, they only get the 2-resource discount. And thus, they must spend 6 (8-2) for the second tech.

I hope this helps.

Posted at

Thank you very much, to both of you! It makes sense.