Peacekeeper_b said:

Not exactly.

They can become Repentia, for example.

Also they never can become psyker, nor sorcerer, even if Adepts normally can.

DarkLoic said:

Ok, then for the most part they act like normal adepts. Cept as above.

H.B.M.C. said:

I doubt we ever get anything specifically for Ascension.

It's broken enough as it is.

Adam France said:

Pretty much in line with this school of thought. It's almost certain, that some of the Famulus and Dialogus Orders actually do follow the "Bene Gesserit-way". I mean, the whole imperial cult and creed is about worshiping the emperor and the sanctity of humanity and the human form. All that "aliens are bastards, kill them without a consideration" is solely there to make sure humanity is the only relevant higher life-form left and that humanity shall remain as it is, which is also shown by the whole deforming chaos influence and mutations and the opposition to those things by imperial institutions. Breeding programs to preserve and eventually even enhance humanity are almost a logical step from there.

Also, I am pretty convinced, that both Orders Militant and Orders Hospitaler actually do know, that sex is a way of relieving stress, bonding with each other and bolstering morale, though Militants might be a "tad" stricter about with whom or if at all.

Logically, children from such acts are almost automatically food for Schola Progenia, since the Sororita are there to preserve and guard humanity and the emperor and not her own life and as an extension, their own child. A Sororita who puts the benevolence of her kid or herself above humanity is dead, both metaphorically and literally.

Of course, as is always the case in the Imperium, there are those, who go to far with that thing and those, who look at that even in it's most basic and simply neccessary incarnations as a heresy.

No children, no humanity, no emperor. Sororita are there for the Emperor, for Humanity, but not for children and the future survival of humanity? Simply not possible.

I had always taken it that Sisters were celibate (or at least were meant to be). If anything they are sorely lacking any opportunity to engage in sex, and it doesn't fit with the rather austere sensibility of the Sisters. The Sisters of Battle would find any resulting pregnancies compromising their ability to carry out their job, while the Dialogous are meant to keep themselves to themselves. That leaves the Hospitallers and the Famulous. The Famulous I had up until know always regarded as keeping their distance from those they advise and doing their best to remain "pure" so that they could give impartial advice for the best of the Imperium, unsullied by emotional ties to people, and to prevent possible corruption by the perverse habits of the nobility (and maybe to act as an example to follow). Hospitallers... well, I cannot see any strong argument why not, beyond not really seeing them as being the modern stereotype of a nurse that soldiers fall in love with while wounded.

I could maybe see Famulous deliberately getting pregnant to give birth to a child of significance, but I would see them as seeing it as an unfortunate duty and a rare occourance. And I think there was always the implication that Goge Vandire indulged in the Brides of the Emperor while he held their loyalty (which is why the change in name from and back to the "Daughters of the Emperor" would hold particular significance, and is a further reason why I regard them as being largely celibate as it is a further way to distance them from that period).

Have to say I am not terribly keen on much of the Sisters artwork in this book. The Dialogous has been too directly copied from the rather silly looking model, the Repentia looks stupid (but then they were always a stupid idea in the first place), the Famulous... looks too much like a dominatrix (I saw them being much more into spartan religious robes, the Battle Sisters aside), and the Hospitaller seems to be wearing eyeliner and appears to have had her eyebrows shaped.

A couple of pages back some one was kind enough to post a list of the alternative career paths that Blood of the Martyrs offers, and I spotted Redemptonist on the list.
Now Inquistor's Handbook already have a alternative career paths call The cult of the red Redemption so I was wondering if the Redemptonist in Blood of the Martyrs merely was an updated version, or something else entirely.

Storhamster said:

Not true, allow me to qoute from Caiphas Cain: Cain's Last Stand. In a foot note from Inquisitor Amberly Vail on page 187.

"Not at all: contrary to popular belief, the Adeta Sororitas dosen't actually require its members to remian celibate, although few find the time to take advantage of the fact"

Not all the little details from books end up being accepted as Canon. You can pretty much end up taking it any way you wish

Rakiel said:

Sometimes true ... but the posters claiming 'of course they are chaste' have produced no contradictory canon anywhere near as explicit as that Cain quote, so at the moment the Cain quote trumps posters opinions to the contrary imo.

Acernis Taine said:

This is unfortunately one of the only officially published statements one way or the other on this topic... Of note though, there are several passages in Cadian Blood that strongly imply that frequent childbearing is considered to be (while not quite mandatory) an important act of faith and devotion to the Imperial Creed. To be fair, the speakers are Cadian and it is a reasonably safe assumption that breeding the next generation of "the Emperor's Warriors" would be glorified even more than usual by Imperial standards. No further info regarding the Sororitas appears in the book, but when combined with Inquisitor Amberly Vail's footnote above it stands to reason that casual sex would be discouraged amongst the Sisterhood but that deliberative breeding with "desirable" partners would be tacitly (though discreetly) encouraged.

The Eugenics movement of the 1920's-40's is the most fitting model for the Imperium's official stance on sex and breeding. Degenerates and inferiors (read "mutants and heretics") should not be allowed to breed, even to the point of enforced sterilization or euthanasia. Pure and superior genetics on the other hand should be spread far and wide. The Nazis were the most famous proponents of this system of genetic selection and propagation, going so far as to establish breeding farms for "pure" individuals to rapidly propigate several offspring. SS Officers were strongly encouraged to participate in this system, and such matings were not considered to be a violation of marriage vows. On the contrary, such sanctioned matings were considered to be their duty to their Fatherland. Adepta Sororitas members would be obvious candidates for such matings, since their purity of Faith and genetics cannot be questioned. Inquisitors, notable and stable Rogue Traders, prominent Navy and Imperial Guard officers, Stormtroopers and other exalted members of Imperial Society would likewise be potential candidates for such matings.

Also not to be discounted is the Orders Famulous = Bene Gesserit meme. The 40K universe literally DRIPS Dune influences. One of the major roles of the Bene Gesserit besides that of diplomacy was the deliberate and galaxy-spanning controlled breeding program designed to produce certain desired genetic traits and to stabilize interactions between Imperial noble families. I feel that I am on quite solid ground to believe that the Adepta Sororitas are at least as scheming and complicit as the Bene Gesserit.

And yes.... The Emperor's name IS a killing word!

As for the original topic: Where the HELL is this book in the US?! As of thursday afternoon it was not even at the distributor level yet, and books tend to hit the shelves about 3-4 days after that happens. The UK got this book on 07DEC10 and as things stand it is likely to not make the shelves for Christmas here in the US... Since NOTHING comes out in the week between Christmas and New Year it is entirely possible that we don't get this book until January.... FAIL! EPIC ******* FAIL!

Adam France said:

Adam France said:

I agree with Adam France here. The mere statement that "not all the little details from books end up being accepted as Canon" is a very poor argument and room for it only exists when there are direct contradictions presented in several books. Since I know of only one book that touches on the subject, it, by virtue of being the sole source, becomes the default Canon.

Besides, the notion of "they are chaste" falls on modern religious principles.

Thecallmejokke said:

The one from the Inquisitor's book is an elite package. The one in Blood of the Martyrs is an alternate rank 1 career path. So it's different. That said, part of the Martyrs book does replace the Inquisitor's book.

Ah I see, so it is. Thanks Eddie.

Peacekeeper_b said:

I'm not making an argument either way, simply saying that the books are a poor source of taking what is "canon". The rulebooks tend to be the defacto canon, since the fluff is directly created through and by them, while the books are author visions within the universe. GW checks through them for massive inconsistencies, I believe, but they do not run a police state on it. Thus you end up with guys like C.S. Goto and his "MULTILASERS, EVERYWHERE!" attitude.

I'm just saying that I wouldn't take it as canon if a book randomly in the sidebar mentions something. There is nothing that I am aware of that really says one way or another, and one could largely argue that different convents and what not might slightly vary on such principles. Sororitas are not modern day Nuns, but we don't have enough information to say de facto this or that. So what I mean is : take it as you will, use it as you will.

Rakiel said:

Sure ... but in this case that does fit with the quote we have - Sororitas are mostly celibate by circumstance ... but not celibate by unanimous rule. Despite a widely held belief (in the setting) they are celibate they in fact can, and some do, have sex. That's what the quote basically says in effect. So your preference that some may, other don't, fits that.

What wouldn't fit it is a belief that ALL Sororitas are forbidden from having sex. That flies in the face of the only official source we have - and novels are published by authority of GW, they are official, even if sometimes they get things wrong.

Is anybody else weirded-out by how much of this thread is dominated by a discussion of Sororitas sexuality?

gawdsofwar said:

Quoted for truth. So I fall under that

What I personally hope for is knowing when it'll be out in the US, looking forward to the book. Sounds from all in this thread to be pretty nifty for any clerics/sororitas players.

gawdsofwar said:

Probably, if it wasn't the internet, a degree of anonymity and a little lack of social repercussions tends to do that...

Anyhow, bit disappointed that the book is somewhere else but not at my place for some post christmas holiday gaming I had planned. Probably doesn't help that I live at the arse end of the world, but oh well, it'll arrive sometime

According to amazon.com it will be January 11 of 2011.

Quartermus said:

When it comes to FFG products, dont trust Amazon.

Check your local game store on Tuesday.

I don't mean to bait those living in the US, but i feel it's almost karmic-balance instating itself that for once we in the UK get a book before you lot!

Back on track, and by that i mean bypassing the sexuality discussion and getting back to the book itself, i have read through most of it. Good mechanical additions and replacements of old stuff (such as the redemptionist and sororitas) as well as some blinding new additions (such as the Drill Abbot and their ability to impart weapons training to crowds with successful Command checks. Say hello to bolter wielding mobs!).

My only real criticism is the small size of the book. As has been mentioned before, a lot of the material in the book is just re-printing of existing material. We do get some nice new artwork, but again as usual there is also recycled art in there too. Personally, because of it's lightweight content, i wouldn't buy the book at full price, i bought mine online through a 3rd party retailer who knock a good £5 or more off of all FFG prices here in the UK.

Definitely worth getting hold of if you have any devout players in your games, or want more up to date and better balanced Sororitas rules.

gawdsofwar said:

We aren't taking a huge leap to consider Sororitas sexuality imo, when you guys in America get to see it () check out most of the art ... I had to cover the pages when reading it on a crowded train as I didn't want people to think I was reading a bondage mag or something.

Also, unlike the arguably more genetically different Astartes, there is no clear need for Sororitas to be celibate, so some speculation as to whether they in fact are is not exactly freaky.

I have to say I am slightly disappointed with a few things they have done.

Redemptionists no longer have to be insane (I think I remember that some level of Insanity Points was required for the Inquisitor's Handbook Elite Advance?). While The Imperium is a rather unforgiving society as a whole the Redemption were always meant to be the crazy end of that, taking things too far. They were meant to be mad (and outlaws, from what I remember, even if some members of the authorities would manipulate them from afar for their own purposes. That was one of the reasonss they wear masks).

The whole Faith Talents thing is... meh. Some of the things are fine, but some (as others have said) really feel like they should be limited to things like Living Saints, while others should be more universal (ie, not require the Pure Faith Talent, or in fact a Talent at all. This was mainly the case for the more ritualistic ones). Also, many were too... well powerful, and certainly too obvious. To me Faith as a sort of power should be more subtle, at least in most cases. The effects it has (in my opinion) should be dissmissable to the outside observer as luck, grit or whatever (partly because it is about Faith... you don't need faith that the Emperor has intervened if it is obvious). Burning swords and the like really don't fit my idea of how it should work (Living Saints aside who are decidedly unsubtle).

Also, Sisters of Battle seem to be appearing everywhere across the Calixis Sector. I am sure it was initially stated that the Sororitas outpost on Iocanthos was the only significant presence they had in the Sector, and it had about 50 Sisters, there being small numbers of others as honour guards to certain Shrines etc, but that was it. Now we have "small" outposts which have 100+ Sisters.

borithan said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's an edition-based difference from the tabletop bleeding into the RPG. Weren't the sisters originally present basically everywhere the Ecclesiarchy went and then changed in a later edition to be smaller force?